Show notes:
This week on the podcast, I’m speaking to venue consultant and co-owner of The Barn at Pengelly, Wenna Hicks, about wedding venue success and how data-driven decisions can transform bookings and business growth.
We explore Wenna’s journey from corporate consulting into the wedding industry and how she applies strategic thinking, market research, and customer insights to improve venue performance. We also discuss pricing strategy, CRM systems, social media marketing, supplier relationships, and the importance of transparency in increasing wedding venue bookings.
The Barn at Pengelly Instagram
Time stamps:
00:02 – The Importance of Transparency in Venue Marketing
01:44 – The Journey from Corporate Consulting to Wedding Venue Owner
09:22 – The Journey to First Bookings
14:17 – Challenges and Growth in Business Operations
26:05 – Navigating Pricing Strategies in the Wedding Industry
31:01 – Building Relationships with Suppliers
34:55 – The Role of Social Media in Modern Marketing
42:55 – Investing in Business Education and Networking
47:36 – The Importance of Mindset in Business Growth
Transcript:
Wenna
00:00:00.400 – 00:00:27.080
Getting people to your venue. I find, and I know we talked about this a lot at WED Pro and it’s what everyone’s talking about, but it’s transparency.
On your website when I do a lot of market research, I mean, we’re kind of looking to expand to a second venue at the moment.
So I’m doing a lot of heavy market research for my purposes in certain counties and I’m like, I’m not getting any information I need here on your website if I’m not. And I’m getting frustrated. How are your customers feeling?
Becca
00:00:27.080 – 00:01:28.290
I’m Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, strategist, speaker and author.
Over the last decade, I’ve combined my love of marketing with my knowledge of the wedding industry to help thousands of wedding pros and venues just like you learn new skills, strategize, get re energized and grow their businesses. Because after all, that’s how you stay top of your game. Whether you’re brand new into this industry or been here forever, I want to help.
So grab a cup of tea or a cocktail, sit back and enjoy a brand new episode of my award winning podcast, Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow. Let’s get going with today’s episode. Today I’m chatting with Wena Hicks, co owner of the Barn at Pengelli, a stunning barn venue in Cornwall.
With a 12 year background in corporate consulting, her venue journey started five years ago.
Now Wena also runs Elevate Venue Consulting where she helps fellow venue owners create efficient business structures, drive growth and turn ideas into profit. I cannot wait to find out more about her journey. Wena, welcome to the podcast.
Wenna
00:01:28.680 – 00:01:30.360
Hi Becca, it’s great to join you today.
Becca
00:01:30.600 – 00:01:58.070
It’s so good to have you here.
I love having people who are still on the ground in venues, in wedding businesses on the podcast because it gives a real insight into what is happening in our industry right here, right now. And that’s what we’re going to be getting into today.
But before then, I always like to take people back and find out a little bit more about their journey to the point where they are now. So take me right back to your career before weddings. What were you actually doing?
Wenna
00:01:58.150 – 00:02:34.980
So pre weddings I worked in corporate consulting.
Now corporate consulting is one of those things that nobody knows what it means and I can never describe what it means because it makes no sense to anyone.
But basically I worked with really large corporations, think like Dyson, IBM, Vodafone, across the UK and across America, helping them improve what they do on a daily basis. So Whether that’s new technology to help them work better, reducing headcount, improving profitability, you name it, I did it.
Anything across, basically operations and strategy, love it.
Becca
00:02:34.980 – 00:02:50.630
All of my favorite things. And so I guess that kind of plays into what you’re doing right now. But let’s not jump ahead.
So you’re there, you’re having this career, you’re working with these big brands. How on earth have you gone from that to to I know I’m going to co own a wedding venue.
Wenna
00:02:50.950 – 00:03:54.880
It’s a very good question. So if we go back a bit. So I’m actually from a farming family. I’m one of four girls and we are fifth generation dairy farmers.
My poor dad had four girls and none of us wanted to take on the farm. And it’s one of those things where for years we’ve had this amazing field on the farm that overlooks these lakes.
And I’ve said so many times, wouldn’t it be great if we had a wedding venue here? Wouldn’t the views be amazing? And then one day we thought, you know what, why don’t we just try it? We’ve got nothing to lose.
We want the farm to stay in the family. And we started a pre planning application probably about 10 years ago now.
And to be honest, even the planning officer said not a lot of chance because it’s a new build development, you’re not converting an existing barn, but let’s just go for it, skip forward a few years that all went through and actually believe it or not, until last year, so 12 months ago I was running for the wedding venue and doing a full time corporate consulting career in London. So I’m very used to being very busy.
Becca
00:03:55.280 – 00:04:19.500
Wow, that is a lot. Okay, so there’s a lot to unpack there.
So in terms of the venue itself, then again that’s still a big leap even if you come up with the idea to actually make it happen and to actually go ahead. So what’s the business structure? Is it you on your own? Is it your entire family together?
How have you, how are you all working together to make this happen? And importantly, is it still a dairy farm or is the farming part ceased.
Wenna
00:04:19.820 – 00:05:11.900
So it’s no longer a dairy farm but it is still a working farm. So my parents stopped doing dairy about 15 years ago now as the industry declined and they converted all of their barns into holiday cottages.
So tick one, we had accommodation on site. It’s myself and one of my sisters who run the wedding venue. She also works full time in corporate. The timing just Kind of aligned.
I opened the wedding venue whilst six months pregnant. So then I took my 12 month maternity leave to get it up and running and get a team in place who can run it on a day to day basis and be here.
So yeah, family, parents are still somewhat involved, they live on site, they manage the holiday accommodation which is now exclusive for the venue, but it’s two kind of separate businesses. So I’m all weddings, they’re all accommodation,.
Becca
00:05:11.900 – 00:05:32.520
So it’s a proper family business. And also, just a side note, why as women do we do this to ourselves? We say we’re on maternity leave.
I know that’s a great gap to set up a massive business opportunity rather than to sit back and rest. But so many entrepreneurs, including myself that I talked to on this podcast, use maternity leave as a jumping off point to do something different.
Wenna
00:05:32.600 – 00:05:35.080
I know, because we’re always, we just have to be busy.
Becca
00:05:35.320 – 00:05:56.580
Yeah, I know.
And I look back and I think all my friends who are in these jobs, they took their maternity leave and they just sat around going for coffee, having this lovely time and somehow I had this tiny baby and decided to try and build a business empire. So we don’t, we’re not always kind to ourselves, but I’m sure you have no regrets.
And I guess a bit like people use Covid, it just gives you a time to think about something different.
Wenna
00:05:56.740 – 00:06:37.920
It does, yeah. And I think at the time as well, we actually launched just after Covid.
So you could argue the timing was good or the timing was terrible, but we were very lucky. It was just before we left the European Union and there used to be a European Growth Fund grant pot, so we applied for that.
And as part of that, which at the time seemed awful, but it was a blessing in disguise.
It was a very rigorous process where you had to produce marketing plans, competitor analysis showing that you’ve spoken to competitors, cash flow forecasts, everything. So it kind of forced us into doing a really, really comprehensive market research before opening.
Becca
00:06:38.000 – 00:06:44.780
Amazing. So what came out of that market research then? What was the benefit of doing that level of research before you opened?
Wenna
00:06:44.780 – 00:08:28.580
For us, it was understanding it’s a very strong wedding market in Cornwall. Obviously it’s a bit of a destination venue, destination wedding spot as well.
Because of the coastline, we knew we didn’t have the coastal views, we were farm inland venue. And so we wanted to understand what was our differentiator.
And for us, what we realized was that a lot of venues can only hold up to 120 people and then you have to hire in Additional marquee and additional spend to get those larger numbers. So from the start, for us, it was okay.
How can we cater to the larger markets, but also have the flexibility inside the venue that you can make it a bit smaller for smaller weddings because you don’t want to cut yourself off to that. We also had the opportunity to speak to a lot of suppliers.
And because we were lucky enough to be building a venue from scratch rather than converting existing building, we went and spoke to every supplier, I mean, from cake makers to event hire to everyone, and said, what is your biggest hate when working with wedding venues in terms of logistics, not what they do. And what would be great? What. What is the. It would be great if.
So it would be great if actually we could just drive around the back of the venue and park right outside the kitchen and offload everything into there. Great. Okay, well, we’ll create additional. Additional road that goes around the back.
It was all those small things to make sure that we were thinking of everything at the start.
We also did a lot of surveys on social media with brides got married at all different venues across the country, saying, what did you love most about your venue? What would be better? What do you think’s missing?
So it was really capturing all of that research and making sure we could build something that met everyone’s needs.
Becca
00:08:28.820 – 00:09:21.250
I love that.
And I love that you had those suppliers involved from day one, essentially, before you even built it, because it’s those little things that we often don’t think about. I mean, even when I just ran WED Pros Live at the conference, my AV team said, this is the worst venue we’ve ever had for access.
The access was terrible.
But when you’re booking a venue, when you’re thinking about it, you don’t always think about those little things, about the fact that the lifts were tiny and they had to try and get all of this speaker equipment up in the tiniest lift ever. Obviously, they did it. They did an amazing job and it was a great venue.
But actually having those conversations now when I’m looking at venues, I need to start thinking, oh, actually, what do the AV team require? What makes it easier for them?
And it’s exactly the same when you’re building a venue from scratch, that everyone will have different needs, everyone will have different desires. But a lot of venue owners or people building a venue wouldn’t even think to consider it.
Wenna
00:09:21.330 – 00:09:22.050
Absolutely.
Becca
00:09:22.530 – 00:09:39.090
So tell me then about your first bookings, your first weddings. I’m sure it was an exciting day when the first people booked where did you find them from when you are new on the scene?
Did you launch with a big marketing plan? Was it people that you knew? How do you soft launch ahead of build? How did that part all come together?
Wenna
00:09:39.430 – 00:10:52.330
Yeah, it’s a really, it’s a really fun journey actually because I lived in London at the time. During the build, my sister lived in Bristol. It was obviously a construction site for the first 12.
We built it exceptionally quickly actually in under 18 months from, from breaking ground the first time.
So me and my sister would alternate weekends and we would, we had CGI drawings drawn up to sell the vision and then we would do, taking turns doing weekends, come down for the weekend and booking viewings back to. It would be sort of nine hour days, no chance to stop for a coffee, a drink or anything to eat and just solve the vision really.
And I think because we grew up on the farm and we had so much passion about what we were doing that really came across, we’d say, make sure you bring your wellies, here’s a hard hat, you’re on a construction site. And we’d walk around saying, just imagine this, this is going to be the kitchen, this is going to be the dance floor.
And we booked 22 weddings before even opening.
And we did, we did very much sell it as, you know, exclusive 50% discount before opening because we are expecting you to buy into what, what we’re promising you and we want you to book something that doesn’t currently exist.
Becca
00:10:52.890 – 00:11:04.410
Yeah. And trying to sell something off plan on a construction site is not the easiest thing to do. So it sounds like a smart strategy.
So basically once the doors opened, you already had a number of bookings in the diary.
Wenna
00:11:04.570 – 00:11:44.120
Yeah. So we opened in May 2022. We opened with a wedding fair as kind of like big welco. I remember the night before it was all hands on deck.
We had friends over friends, family, all trying to pull together to make it ready for the opening. My sister’s boyfriend drilled through the wall to put a picture up and went for a water pipe. We had the plumber out at about 10 o’ clock at night.
We were all painting, oiling the bar because we used a lot of reclaimed materials from the farm, so like a fallen ash tree to create the bar. It was all hands on deck. And then so we had the wedding fair and then three days later, our first wedding.
Becca
00:11:44.280 – 00:12:03.400
Wow. Okay, so that was definitely baptism of fire. It all happened at once. But exciting to see it all come together.
So now then, as you look back on the journey so far, so from 2022, when you opened through to present day, what do you think are some of the things what’s worked for you to drive success?
Wenna
00:12:04.120 – 00:13:37.000
For me, I am all about, you don’t have to follow the crowd and what everyone else is doing. You don’t have to follow the industry norms.
And I, because I don’t come from a wedding background, when you speak to people, it’s very much like, oh, no, no, that’s not what you do. You don’t offer discounts, you don’t do this. Whereas for me I’m like, okay, but what’s going to drive more bookings?
How am I going to stand out against competitors?
So from the start, we went in at quite a high price point for the venue, thinking we want to target out of county couples, we want those coming down from London. And very quickly I realized, but we don’t have the coastal views, we can’t compete directly with those coastal venues.
And I wasn’t afraid to drop the price. I dropped the price and bookings increased. So it’s about playing around.
Because I come from a consulting background, from the start, my point, my view was, okay, how can we streamline this whole process of customers getting in touch with us so, you know, introduce online booking tools, online availability, calendars, things that hadn’t really happened that much by the venues down here at the time five years ago and made it really streamlined. And I mean, we started off being, we are a drive venue hire.
We don’t offer wedding coordination, we don’t offer drinks packages, we don’t offer catering. They can come in and do it all themselves.
And now, I mean, one, two, skip a few, we, we offer everything we’ve got in house catering, drinks, packages, accommodation, full wedding coordination. But we’re a bit too scared to do it all at the start and wanted to really grow and learn as we went on, which worked well for us.
Becca
00:13:37.080 – 00:14:22.340
Yeah.
And actually it’s a, it’s a kind of good secret sauce to have that you came from outside of the wedding industry and you came into it with that fresh perspect perspective. I think a lot of wedding businesses, not just venues, but all the small businesses as well, lead with emotion rather than data.
And you’ll know that I talk about this a lot as well, which is like. But we’ve got to look at the actual numbers, we need to know the data, we need to know how this business is going to grow.
But they, they’re so in it from the emotional perspective that sometimes it’s hard to, to think differently and they are just looking left at right what everyone else is doing and following a mold. So it sounds like you came in with fresh ideas, fresh perspective, business smart and went right, this is what’s going to work.
But that’s evolved over time as well. So what has been some of the challenges? Because I’m sure it hasn’t all been plain sailing.
Wenna
00:14:22.340 – 00:16:04.540
Well, it’s never plain sailing. I mean, we’ve grown so quickly. We went from 22 weddings in the first year to 85 last year.
And also realizing that you do have to have a very good team around you. So especially when you’re working remotely, we thought, let’s have a really lean staffing model, have one person in from the start.
And we’ve had, we’ve certainly had our challenges. Finding the right staff is always the hardest thing to do. We’ve got an incredible team at the moment and we couldn’t do it without them.
But along the way we’ve, we’ve had challenges. You have tricky couples. Things go wrong. The day before, I remember we were, we’re always, we always invest back into our venues.
We’re still growing every year. We, we had a big slope behind the venue and we thought, oh, let’s create a flat grass area. So it’s another area to put sort of garden games on.
But it was one winter where we had the most awful weather and then we had our first wedding of the season. They came two weeks before for their final meeting and all they could see behind the bi fold doors where the top table is, is a mud pit.
So it was okay. They had an absolute meltdown. Understandably.
I think something had gone wrong with her dress the day before and she thought, oh, this is just all doome. So it was like, okay, right, what are we going to do? Let’s create.
How can we create a backdrop on the, on the bi fold door so you can’t actually see there? Can we put these screens up? I mean it all, it all came together in the end, but you really have to think on your feet in this industry.
Do you have no idea what’s going to happen the night before the day of? And everyone looks at you for the solution.
Becca
00:16:04.700 – 00:16:28.520
Yeah. And everyone is expecting their day to be perfect.
They don’t want anything to be imperfect because they’re doing it once and therefore we’ve got to find the way to make it better. So in terms terms of your offering now then, as of 2026, you said that you started out as dry hire. Now you offer everything.
So in terms of what Your couples see, are they given options, Are they given packages? How does that work?
Wenna
00:16:29.080 – 00:17:37.660
So we give packages a very, very strong believer that couples want choice rather than being told. And it works for some venues.
And I think it definitely depends on your style of venue for us is here’s your venue hire, here’s a different catering we offer, here’s the different drink packages we offer and here’s the accommodation. You don’t have to have the accommodation and you can choose what works for you.
Perhaps you want a formal three plated sit down dinner or perhaps actually feasting works better for you. You do or you don’t want canapes.
Last year we moved, which was the hardest thing we’ve done is move from external preferred caterers to in house catering. And that was really, really tricky. It was one of the things I always knew I wanted to do, but how to get there was going to be hard.
We also offer styling packages so we like to make it as easy as possible for our couples.
So of our styling packages, they can turn up on the day and the table is all laid out for them, they’ve got all their runners, all they need to do is add florals and it’s very hands off. Or you get other couples who want to do everything themselves and that’s absolutely fine.
Becca
00:17:37.740 – 00:17:53.000
So they’re kind of building a package, a bespoke package from Options because we know the paradox of choice. They don’t want to know everything, they need to know something.
So they start with the base, which is the venue, and from there they can then build up from there. And now you’ve gone to in house catering, do they have to use your catering?
Wenna
00:17:53.080 – 00:18:07.990
They do now we’ve got this. We’re currently in our tricky transition year which is unavoidable. So we’ve got couples, we did our cutoff as 1st of January.
Any couples who book before then can still use our preferred caterers. Anyone post then has to be our in house catering.
Becca
00:18:08.380 – 00:18:11.260
And what was the driver behind that decision? A revenue based decision.
Wenna
00:18:11.580 – 00:18:35.230
Revenue based decision. And actually also the thing is, when you go to a wedding, you’ll know this. You go, you will never separate in your mind the venue and the food.
You’ll go, yeah, it’s a nice venue, but I didn’t really think the food was that great. So for us it was also about owning our full brand and reputation and the perception.
And also, yeah, we felt like it just really completed our offering.
Becca
00:18:35.540 – 00:19:43.380
Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. I actually recently ran a consultancy day with a venue who use external caterers and they wanted the caterers and them to be in the room for the day.
So we had with, we did the training as a full team. So it was all the individual caterers and the venue for that exact reason.
Because from a couple’s perspective, other than the people that book you, everyone else at that wedding just assumes the food’s provided by the venue.
And so what we were saying to the caterers that day were, you’ve got to live our standards, you’ve got to live our values, otherwise we won’t be using you. Because that’s, that’s why, why people think that you’re us. And if the food’s not good enough, they blame us for it.
So, yeah, I think it makes total sense, but I think it’s something that a lot of venues don’t necessarily think about, whether that’s that they’re going to bring it in house or whether they’re going to use the external catering, actually making sure you have a really clear relationship so that you are almost one in the same rather than just, just ad hoc.
And if you are going ad hoc and completely dry hire, then making that clear, plain and obvious to everyone and bringing in food trucks and branded things like that as well. So, yeah, I think it said it sounds like it was a challenge, but it sounds like it was also the right decision for your business.
Wenna
00:19:43.620 – 00:19:44.500
Yes, definitely.
Becca
00:19:44.660 – 00:20:35.220
Now, I want to talk to you about pricing.
You’ve already alluded to it a little bit about pricing strategy and I’m interested to dive into this conversation because I’m quite well known for saying disney never discount. It’s one of my favorite things to say is Disney never discount.
And, and kind of the heart behind that saying is if I want to go to Thorpe Park Legoland, I could buy any packet of Soap and get 2 for 1. But if I want to go to Disney, I’m always paying the premium and I get a premium service.
Now, as you said earlier, sometimes people take that very literally in the wedding industry and think I can never discount, I can never do any offer. So I just wanted to chat really and just hear because I think there is nuance in this discussion of how it works.
So I’d love to know a couple of things around how you see discounting or offers and I do think they are slightly different things and how you offer them, but whilst remaining premium.
Wenna
00:20:35.460 – 00:22:37.710
So for us when it comes to discounting, it’s all about filling last minute dates. It’s not, I would never offer a discount 12 months in advance.
I think you have your set pricing, if you’ve got a good reputation, people are going to book you for that. And when I then look at the year ahead and I think, okay, we’ve still got five weekends that are free this year.
How are we going to entice customers to book this year instead of next? And a lot of our couples do find it scary booking less than 12 months in advance.
I know there is a slight shift in trend that people are booking a bit more last minute, especially this year, but I would rather have full dates slightly discounted for the year than them sat empty. And I think when you own a venue as well, my view is I have a bar on site, I have catering.
Even if someone’s in discounted, there’s going to be bar spend, there’s going to be catering spend. It is better than nothing. And I get that doesn’t work for everyone, but for us it’s worked really well. And I think not just last minute.
When we were, you know, I said that we reviewed our pricing at the very start and realized we were too high. We then had weekday on weekend pricing, obviously as standard. We do multi day hire only, so we don’t have sort of the Friday, Saturday pricing tiers.
I was like, okay, great. But all of our weekday bookings are Thursdays. We’re not having any on a Monday or Tuesday. Why is that?
Well, why would you when you can book a Thursday for the same price? So we then introduced a second Tuesday pricing which was a lot more discounted.
But all of a sudden, particularly in our summer, all of our Tuesdays are booking up and that’s not people shifting from Thursday to Tuesday, that’s new bookings. So yeah, for us, playing around with pricing works. And I would rather a full calendar than empty dates.
But equally, I appreciate that for some venues, particularly those who limit the number of weddings they do in a year, they prefer to have a set amount at full price. And that’s fine. It’s about what works for your venue and your strategy.
Becca
00:22:37.710 – 00:24:00.570
Yeah, and I think that’s why there’s nuance as well, isn’t it? Because it’s often to do with an individual. So for example, a venue team having empty dates, it doesn’t make any sense.
But an individual florist who is then working alone and giving up a Saturday with their family to work wants to make sure they’re doing it at a premium price. So I think within our industry, absolutely there is nuance and there is discussion to be had.
And we know that the data Tells us that you will attract different kinds of couples if you have pricing, which is for a Monday.
I’ve been to more than one Monday wedding and when I’ve spoken to the couples, my friends who’ve got married that day, it was because they could get a more premium venue on a day that was more awkward for most people, but it meant it came into the price point. So they would never have booked that venue on a Saturday at the full price. They were looking at it, but only on a Monday.
And I think sometimes when we think about discounting, the mistake people make is they, they’re like dfs where there’s always a sale, there’s always a discount and then no one believes it. So I think you’re absolutely right.
If you are going to bring in different levels of pricing strategy, there has to be clear, consistent reasons that you can be transparent about about why that is at a lower price. It’s because it’s on a Monday which is less favorable. It’s because it’s only within the next six months.
And I think it’s when people just have big flash offers on everything that it devalues the product.
Wenna
00:24:00.730 – 00:24:01.770
Yeah, I completely agree.
Becca
00:24:02.090 – 00:24:28.580
How do you make sure then with your pricing model or have you ever had this? Because this is the other complicating factor. How do you make sure you don’t upset your current couples?
So if I am couple A and I’ve loved you from day one and I’ve booked you three years in advance at a price and then someone comes in three months before and gets it at half the price, do you think that impacts business at all? Do you think they’re just totally unaware of it? Or how do you make sure your couples are all happy?
Wenna
00:24:28.580 – 00:25:26.930
It’s a really good point and we actually learned this the hard way.
So when we first did the discount, we publicized it on our social medias, on our social media and then we had one or two existing couples email us exactly that, that I booked years ago. Now you’re offering this discount. I want that discounted rate. And you kind of have to explain the whole process of.
Yes, but this last minute person is gonna, it’s not gonna be able to put the supplies that you booked because X, Y and Z.
What we do now is we only advertise the discounts on our inquiry template that goes out our inquiry email or if we’re publicizing it on our socials, we make sure it’s a month that hasn’t already been booked. For example, let’s say we got November Weekends left and no one’s booked an E. Then we’ll offer that so we know we’re not upsetting anyone.
We’re really careful about that because we do want to make sure it’s fair and that it works for everyone.
Becca
00:25:27.090 – 00:25:56.430
Yeah.
And we’ve all been there as a consumer, haven’t we, where we’re like this loyal customer to our Internet provider and then they start splashing all over the television. You can get it for like a third of the price. Tiny little caveat, new customers only. And you think, but I’ve been so loyal to you, so.
Yeah, absolutely. Right.
And I, and I noticed actually, because I was having a look at your website, there are those caveats as well, because I’m sure there are still people that will try and come back and go, well, I want you to match that price now and you want to make sure you can navigate that effectively.
Wenna
00:25:56.670 – 00:25:57.710
Yeah, absolutely.
Becca
00:25:57.870 – 00:26:13.070
Okay, so let’s think about venues on a wider scale because as I said, as well as just having your venue now, you also are looking to support other venues too. So are there any common mistakes other than things we’ve already spoken about that you see the venue market making as.
Wenna
00:26:13.070 – 00:27:13.220
A whole, for me, more. It’s.
It’s getting people to your venue, I find, and I know we talked about this a lot at Wed Pro and it’s what everyone’s talking about, but it’s transparency on your website when I do a lot of market research. I mean, we’re kind of looking to expand to a second venue at the moment.
And so I’m doing a lot of heavy market research for my purposes in certain counties. And I’m like, I’m not getting any information I need here on your website if I’m not. And I’m getting frustrated. How are your customers feeling?
And I know there’s this, this debate, which shouldn’t even be a debate of should you show your pricing, should you not show your pricing? But it’s just all these online, really simple things.
Introduce an online tool and not only are you making it easier for your customers, but you’re also reducing your admin time for your team. Yeah, it’s just really, it’s really small things.
Transparency, ease of navigation for your customers and just making sure that, that they can find everything that they need.
Becca
00:27:13.460 – 00:28:02.670
Yeah, it’s so true. And there is a lot of resistance still from some areas of the market to putting pricing on website.
Even though we can see the markets moving, even though as consumers we get frustrated when we can’t find it and it’s that thing about, we talked about earlier about how you’ve come fresh into the market and you come with a fresh perspective. I think sometimes people have been so entrenched in a way of doing things that the thought of changing it is too much.
But you’re right, too many venues are doing that.
And also the point on systems is a big one because I go into venues and I work with venues and I say show me your system and it’s some spreadsheet or even worse, paper forms that they’re still getting filled in and put into files. So talk to me about the systems that you use. If you’re happy to share, what kind of tools are you using in your venue? Do you have a CRM?
Are you using diary management? What are you using?
Wenna
00:28:02.830 – 00:29:26.200
Yeah, of course, definitely not paper. I mean as I said from the start, because of my background, I’m very, very tool orientated.
We actually use, we use BrightBiz, who I know one of your sponsors and it works so well for us.
I was quite resistant at the start of spending that much money on a CRM tool, but once we introduced it, I significantly saw the amount of admin time reduce. I’m not sponsored. It makes such a difference.
We used a different tool before and I find, and everyone will agree with this, there’s no tool that meets all of your needs, I find, but it’s finding one that meets your needs closest. So especially now we’ve moved to in house catering. It’s like now is an extra element of complexity.
How do we capture all of this for our couples as well? But it, it has to be streamlined. It’s setting up automations.
But also I’m also a very firm believer that no couple wants to receive the same email template that isn’t relevant to them. So for us it’s even. I’ve set up automations to remind the wedding coordinator to send that email out. Here’s the template.
But make sure I always say a template is a template. It’s not an email that goes out, it’s one to use as a base to edit, to send to couples.
Becca
00:29:26.440 – 00:29:36.380
Yeah. So tweaking it. Okay, so you use Bright Biz as a CRM and then what other tools are you using?
So are you using a calendar booking tool for people to book their viewings? How are you doing that?
Wenna
00:29:36.380 – 00:29:54.100
We use calendly for couples to book their viewings and then we have different meetings set up on there. So one for new couples to book, one for existing couples and then one for like private Event hire inquiries as well. They’re the main two.
What else do we.
Becca
00:29:54.100 – 00:29:56.500
Availability. Do you have an availability tool, did you say?
Wenna
00:29:56.500 – 00:29:56.740
Are you.
Becca
00:29:56.740 – 00:29:57.260
Not at the moment.
Wenna
00:29:57.260 – 00:30:04.080
I. Not at the moment. I think that’s a real gap at the moment. Yeah, we don’t have an availability tool.
Becca
00:30:04.240 – 00:31:35.000
Yeah, I’ve seen some really good websites where four venues and again, I haven’t worked out what the right tool is.
And every venue is different, but where you can like hover over dates and it tells you whether they’re available and how much it is to book it for that exact date. But yeah, that’s. That’s one. If anyone knows a really good tool for that, send me a message, direct message me on Instagram.
I’d love to hear more about it. But yeah, CRMs are a minefield. And if people are listening to this and thinking, I don’t know where to start, totally get it.
Because as when I just said every tool is not perfect. Everyone has different areas that is stronger at and weaker at.
So I always say, write down the things that you absolutely want it to do and then go and have conversations and kind of have a little tick list about whether or not it can do it and find the one that closest matches. But don’t just go for the cheapest one, because as we all know, often the cheapest one actually doesn’t have the capability you need.
But equally, if you don’t need much capability, you don’t need to pay for the most expensive one. And I have a whole podcast episode which I’ll link to in the show notes, where I compare some different CRM to help you out as well.
Okay, let’s just shift direction again for a moment because there’ll be lots of people listening to this who don’t own a venue, don’t work in a venue. They’re actually individual business owners and what they’re interested in understanding is how they can have better relationships with venues.
You’ll. I’m sure you hear it all the time. I want to be on the recommended list. I want the venues to recommend me.
They put these venues at the top of the pedestal. They know that they can be powerful. So how have you gone about building those relationships yourself and.
And what works for you in terms of meeting new people? What do you like and what do you not like?
Wenna
00:31:35.080 – 00:32:55.560
Yeah, that’s a really good one. And it’s true. I mean, we get so many emails every week. Put me on your supplier list. Which makes no sense to me.
I’m like, okay, why tell me more about You.
So a lot of our suppliers actually got in touch with us, the ones that are on our recommended list now, got in touch with us as we were building and started forging those relationships then. And it’s about, it’s a two way relationship, right.
We’d have photographers say, let me photograph the journey of your build of the venue and I will do drone footage. And they ended up and still are one of our recommended suppliers. Because it, it’s working both ways.
I will say to some of our suppliers, okay, we’re doing an open day. Is anyone interested in doing some florals in return? You know, you’ll meet all of our couples.
So it’s kind of of those who help us and in turn we help them. And also those who work well with us, I mean, without being rude.
Some couples, not couples, sorry, suppliers come in and can be quite rude and expectant of what they want. That’s not going to work well. Work well with us. We’ll work well with you and we’ll recommend you to couples.
Yeah, it’s a really tricky one and I know there’s lots of great suppliers out there. You all want relationships with the venues, but it’s those forming those good working relationships and that will do wonders.
Becca
00:32:55.640 – 00:33:48.000
And I think sometimes the tricky thing is people want a solution, right?
So people will sell someone a template and say, send this email to a venue and this will get you on their recommended supply list, which we know doesn’t work and that is just a lie. And actually again, we talked about nuance earlier. There’s so much nuance in this that there isn’t a direct route. Because I say this a lot.
When people get opportunities or do things with me or come on this podcast often, there’s a lot of things that have led to that.
Or they might have dropped in my inbox at the right moment, or I might have met them at an event or they may have shown willing to come to something that I’m doing and they’re interested rather than just a cold email. And so if you’re listening to this, the relationship building part, there is no one size fits all. You’ve. You’ve got to see it as a bigger picture.
Yes, you’ve got to show up. Yes, you’ve got to be kind and helpful. But sometimes it’s about being, having the right offering at the right time just when someone needs it.
Wenna
00:33:48.000 – 00:34:04.320
Yeah, absolutely. And I think also persistency in a way. So dropping one email isn’t really going to do anything.
But if you keep getting in touch and Saying, look, I’m still following your journey, I love what you do, I really want to get involved. Just bear me in mind for next time. That also works.
Becca
00:34:04.400 – 00:34:49.490
Yeah, and that’s true as well. But again it’s that thing like you talk about earlier, the automations.
Sometimes I’ll get those follow ups but they’re so dry and templated and I’m like, oh, I’m just on a list where every five days they email me and say, say, have you considered me for your podcast yet? And there’s no personality there.
Whereas actually if someone drops into my Instagram and voice notes me and reminds me and I think, oh yeah, I’ve just been so busy I haven’t had a chance to get back to you yet.
Well, that feels like a bit of a personal relationship building rather than just a I’m on a tick list of people that they’re emailing every week, which quite frankly I just file away and don’t do anything with. And I’m sure the venues are the same. It has to be from a genuine place.
I think we can all sniff at someone who’s just doing it in some kind of monotonous basis for what they can get rather than actually looking to build a genuine relationship.
Wenna
00:34:49.650 – 00:34:53.890
Yeah, nobody likes receiving an automated email, especially of the rise of AI.
Becca
00:34:53.970 – 00:35:28.840
Yeah, exactly. And we haven’t even touched on AI. That’s a whole conversation in itself.
Now let’s talk about marketing for a moment because whenever I talk to people who are right in the trenches of the business right now, I like to hear from them. What they’re seeing is working for them, what’s converting for them right here, right now.
Because often people are like, this looks like the shiny new thing, this looks like the shiny new thing. But when we look at the data, which I know you’re interested in, what’s actually driving the revenue isn’t what they think it is.
So from your perspective for your venue right here, right now, where are your leads and importantly, conversions and bookings actually.
Wenna
00:35:29.000 – 00:35:30.680
Coming from social media.
Becca
00:35:32.040 – 00:35:33.200
Social media, which platform?
Wenna
00:35:33.200 – 00:37:26.420
Social media? Multiple platforms, Instagram mainly. And we need to do more on TikTok. So we’ve actually just taken the leap.
So we, you know, absolutely love data, always tracking the data. Where are our leads coming from?
A really interesting talk actually at Web Pros was about the directories and how just because you think they’re not coming from the directories, it is pointing them to the website, to socials. But it’s a good finding platform.
Yeah, social media is really huge for us and we’ve just taken the leap in hiring an external social media agency because it is taking up so much of our team’s time. They’re fantastic at it, but it’s taking them away from their day job.
And we’ve kind of just realized, or not realized, but accepted that social media is a form of advertising. Not just the paid advertising you’re doing, but what your socials look like. So it’s where you need to be investing, particularly of TikTok.
I avoid TikToks.
I don’t want to fall down the TikTok hole, but we’re seeing more and more people come to us and the thing that really actually hit the nail on the head for me was one of my best friends got engaged and she said to me, oh, well, I saw this venue on TikTok. It’s not where I was looking but it’s a really good venue so I’m going to go and have a look.
And I thought, ah, people aren’t just looking in their region now. If something comes up on TikTok, they think, oh, hadn’t thought of that, I might go and look at that venue.
So we’ve kind of got this new market opening up, particularly when videos go viral. We had a video go viral for our venue two years ago which did wonders.
A bridesmaid got engaged at the wedding and it got shared in daily mail and all sorts. But yeah, I mean social media is just huge and it’s, it’s certainly where the investment needs to be.
Becca
00:37:26.420 – 00:38:40.720
Yeah, it’s interesting to hear as well that that’s a key driving factor. And I think people forget that it ca. It should be a paid form of advertising too.
Not necessarily the paid advertising as you said, but the organic, organic side of it.
Because yes, the platforms are free, but the amount of time and energy and effort it takes to create the level of content that is now needed and expected if you want to convert, is high.
And as you’ll know, like that’s one of my biggest investments over the last year is to pay someone, pay a content creator to work with me, work in my team, follow me around, create content and it works.
The results are speaking for themselves and there’s absolutely no way I could do that level of content if it was just me doing it, because I would never do anything else.
It is becoming a full time job and I keep saying, particularly to venues, your next hire will need to be a content creator, like not just someone who can do a bit of marketing here, there and everywhere.
It’s Getting to the point where you will need someone who can create video content for you, who can create carousels for you, that can look at strategy and understand what’s converting, that can give you the numbers and can do that job. Just hiring anyone off the street and saying, here’s a phone, can you create content for me Is not going to cut it anymore.
So it’d be interesting to hear the results. You have to keep me posted on how that works for you using that external company.
Wenna
00:38:41.040 – 00:38:42.320
Yeah, we will do, definitely.
Becca
00:38:42.400 – 00:39:09.500
Okay, metrics then. I know we’re going all over the shop today, but I think there’s some really interesting things.
Again, I feel like when two people who love consultancy and data get together, then there’s lots of questions that we both find interesting. And they’re not necessarily the things that people listening are always thinking about, but often they’re the things they should be thinking about.
So when it comes to metrics, the metrics you are tracking in your venue, you what are the metrics that are really mattering to you right now that you’re paying attention to?
Wenna
00:39:09.900 – 00:39:46.240
The biggest ones, number of viewings that we get booked in each month, the number of bookings and then our annual weddings. And then also, where are we compared to last year? How many bookings were we on for the year ahead, if that makes sense.
We also track average spend and guest size of weddings to see, see what’s happening there. But for us, really it’s viewings, view doing conversions and sources obviously. Where, where’s it coming from?
Social media directories, all the metrics we can get our hands on. Really? Yeah.
Becca
00:39:46.240 – 00:40:14.390
But again, we’re like, yeah, of course you’re doing that, but a lot of people aren’t tracking this stuff. And so the number of people, I’ll say to you, okay, what’s your conversion percentage rate between venue, tour and booking?
And they go, I don’t know, I don’t know. And actually those are really important numbers because that’s where you go, okay, well why, why is that?
Because it’s not just about knowing the numbers, as you will know as a consultant, it’s about, okay, now we have the numbers. What are those numbers telling us and what are we going to tweak or change? So have you changed anything on the base of any of your metrics?
Wenna
00:40:14.470 – 00:41:25.370
We changed where we are investing our advertising spend. And also, it’s a really good point is it’s one thing having the metrics, but what are you going to do about it?
For us, we track whether viewings convert and we always follow up with couples who don’t book with us and say, look, we wish you all the best of your wedding planning. We would love any feedback if you could just tell us why you didn’t go for us. And then we tweak what we’re doing at the venue.
So some was the space just feels too big for our party size. So, you know, we’ve changed from the interiors, made it feel warmer, created new little spaces.
Like I said, we’ve invested in social media company now because we could see that trend of more people finding us on social, social media. So, yeah, it’s all. And it’s also about making sure that the team are aware. So we have a big whiteboard in the office.
Everyone knows the metrics we’re tracking. We put targets in place every year. When the team meets the targets, we take them out on a spa trip.
You’ve got to make sure that everyone’s bought into it. It’s not just you silently tracking them and wondering why we’re not reaching them or why it’s shifting. It’s making sure everyone’s bought into it.
Becca
00:41:25.370 – 00:42:09.460
And there has to be incentives. Again, this comes up a lot with venues. They say, I’m setting my team targets and they’re not hitting them.
And I, I say, well, what happens if they hit them? And they say, nothing. I think, well, why? Like, they’re just working. They don’t have the same investment level as you, the owner of the business.
Like, if they’re getting paid the same, whether or not that couple books or not, then obviously, okay, yes, there’s the love of what we do, but you do need to give them some kind of incentive, something to work towards. We need that as individuals, too. I was talking to someone the other day, even about my own fitness goals. I have incentives where if I.
If I do enough of my workouts in a month, then I treat myself to something at the end and there’s set targets to incentivize me to do it. So what. Obviously you said spa days. What other kind of incentives work for your team?
Wenna
00:42:09.780 – 00:42:48.520
Well, we actually do a commission basis for viewings. So we realized this at the start. You know, me and my sister started off doing all the viewings.
We have the passion, we have the financial incentive of getting those bookings. And then when we shifted to staff, we’re like, why aren’t they getting as many conversions?
And then we introduced a number of years ago, now they get X amount per booking, they get per month. And there was definitely an uplift and you see the drive from the team. They’re like, I want to do the viewing days, I want to take this one.
And they’re financially invested in trying to get them to convert to a booking.
Becca
00:42:48.520 – 00:43:39.840
Yeah. And it absolutely makes business sense. But again, sometimes we just forget to consider these things on a bigger scale.
Now, before I let you go, the last thing I want to talk to you about very briefly, and we’ve mentioned it a couple of times, is Wed Pro. Because I went out on a limb and I decided to put together an industry conference, my first ever one. And it happened in March.
And you came along, which I love that you came along to it. I’m glad to have had you there.
And it’s one of the big reasons you’re here on the podcast today, because I always love to give back to people that give to me. So when people say to me, why can I be on your podcast? Can I do this?
When people have actually taken time to be in a room and support something I do, I always like to give back. So you were there, you experienced it, it.
Why do you think it’s important, even when you’re successful, to continue investing in business education or being in the right rooms or networking?
Wenna
00:43:40.080 – 00:44:38.810
Trends always change. And you know, I, I feel like I’ve learned a lot about weddings, but I don’t know so much about social media.
So you come to these events, you get industry specific talks across all different elements. You also get to talk to different, for me, venue owners.
For others, it be other suppliers in their industry and just have those really honest chats being. How are you finding this year? Oh, it’s been a bit slow. Oh, me too. What have you done? Oh, I’ve done this. Oh, that’s a good idea.
I hadn’t thought of that.
And it’s kind of that reassurance and building a network and I learned a lot from it, you know, from a directory perspective, from marketing perspective, and also being able to take the team along with me and making sure everyone feels like they’re being updated and learning more and more about the industry. I think if you, if you go into the mindset of, of I know what I’m doing, I’m a good wedding venue, I don’t need it.
You’re going to lose track because things keep changing and you’ve got to keep ahead of the curve.
Becca
00:44:38.890 – 00:45:43.010
Yeah. And I love it when people bring teams.
I think sometimes those events are best done when you bring a couple of different people from the team with you.
Because otherwise what happens is one person goes, they have a great day, they come back and they’ve got all this excitement and buzz and they’ve then got to try and transmit that to everyone else.
But actually when multiple people have gone out, had a day, you’ve done some team building, you’ve gone to something together, you’ve experienced it together, maybe you’ve divided and conquered and spoken to different people and gone to different sessions.
Actually, then everyone’s bought into what it is that you’re doing next and they understand why you’re making the decisions rather than just going back and going, I went to this really great thing, I had a great day out in London. They said this and now I want you to all do this change. And then they go, oh, can’t be bothered to do that.
So I think, yeah, definitely the right approach and I know that some people did come in teams and in groups. Groups and have really benefited from that as well. And I love the day. I’m sure there’s definitely things I can improve on for next year.
Definitely lots of feedback for me to go on, but I’m excited for wed pros live 2027 already. So, yes, it’s. It should be a good day. And you’re coming back, right?
Wenna
00:45:43.090 – 00:45:45.250
Yes. We’ve got our tickets, we’re looking forward to it.
Becca
00:45:45.250 – 00:46:32.630
It’s going to be a good one. We’ve already sold over 70 tickets for next year, which a year out I’m thrilled about and I haven’t even announced a single speaker.
But there will be new, fresh topics, new things keeping people at the front of their game. And as you said, the industry is shifting so fast and it is difficult to keep up.
And I think every single one of us, you know, there was things on that day that I learned from the speakers that I thought, oh, I hadn’t thought about it in that perspective. So we never know everything. We always need to keep learning and growing. Wena, it’s been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast.
It’s been great to hear more about your story, to hear more about your venue, to hear more about your tips and advice and what you’re seeing working on the ground right now. I always end my podcast with the same question, so I’m going to put that to you now. And it’s this.
What’s the one thing you personally wish you’d known sooner in your own business?
Wenna
00:46:32.870 – 00:47:14.030
I think for me it was knowing how quickly we’d grow. I think you go in to a new business quite hesitant and almost a bit unsure of yourself without Thinking.
I’ve learned a lot now about manifesting and, you know, think positive thoughts and put yourself in the right situations and. And positive things will happen. So it’s just forward thinking and think and where do I want my business to get to in 5 years?
What do I need to do to get there? Not being stuck in the moment, like, okay, how am I going to get through this first year? What do I need to do? Is it going to work?
Is it not going to work? And worrying and just kind of. Yeah, forward thinking, believing yourself a bit more. More. I think that would be it, yeah.
Becca
00:47:14.030 – 00:47:59.960
All really important things and I think we’re all very English sometimes. We always look at the negatives and again, quite often I’ll challenge my one to one clients with this and they’ll say, oh, what if I don’t get five?
And I say to them, well, you know, have you actually got a plan for the most amount you can manage? Because what if you have the opposite problem? Not that no one comes, that too many people come. Have you actually thought about that?
But we have such a lack. Mindset. Mindset that we forget to think about the abundance and sometimes actually that can be a harder problem.
Having too much work and having too much happen too quickly can actually be more of a challenge than building slowly. But yeah, I think we definitely all need to think bigger, think better and think more positively when.
If people want to find out more about you, about your venue, about your consultancy, where are the best places for them to connect with you? And I’ll put everything in the show notes.
Wenna
00:47:59.960 – 00:48:13.300
Instagram, of course. So for the venue, which is the barn at Pengelly in Cornwall, we’re Pengelly Weddings.
And then for my elevate venue consulting, it’s elevate your venue on Instagram and then that’s got links to the website.
Becca
00:48:13.540 – 00:48:22.980
Fantastic. I will make sure I put the links in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time.
It’s a pleasure to chat with you and I’m excited to see you back at wedpros Live next year.
Wenna
00:48:23.060 – 00:48:24.180
Thanks so much, Becca.
Becca
00:48:24.420 – 00:48:53.669
Loved that conversation.
I always love chatting to people who are right now working in the business, hearing what’s going on in the ground, what’s working for them and getting some great insights.
And I know this stuff isn’t always the most exciting, talking about metrics and data, but it will change the way your business operates and it’s a great driver for finding success.
So make sure you’re paying attention to it if you want to find out more about their amazing venue down in Cornwall or about the consultancy services Wenna offers. Go to the Show Notes and I’ll see you all next time.
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