Show notes:
This week I’m chatting with Andrea Shah, a seasoned wedding copywriter. We discussed whether website copy is still that important and Andrea explains the fundamental shift in client expectations, emphasising that modern couples are increasingly seeking clarity and transparency particularly in pricing pages.
Time stamps:
00:00 – The Convenience of Voice Notes in Wedding Planning
06:18 – Shifts in Wedding Industry Marketing
09:12 – The Importance of Clear Communication on Pricing Pages
22:32 – The Impact of AI on Wedding Industry Strategies
28:28 – Common Mistakes in Website Copy
37:40 – The Importance of Multi-Channel Marketing
39:21 – The Importance of Educating Clients on Costs
Transcript:
Andrea
00:00:00.160 – 00:00:25.760
And I think voice notes are a really clever thing too because I think about when I was planning my wedding and I was also working a very traditional hours office job. I didn’t have the time or the freedom to get on calls outside of my lunch hour.
But it would have been super easy to walk out to the parking lot for five minutes and leave someone a short voice note saying, yes, we’re having a wedding on these dates. It’s this number of guests we’re really interested in booking with you.
Becca
00:00:26.800 – 00:01:15.560
I’m Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger, and you’re listening to the Wedding Program Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I’m here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you’re in the right place. Let’s get going with today’s episode. Today I’m chatting with Andrea Shah, a wedding industry copywriter for Creatives and Educators.
She loves helping small business owners just like you get clarity on just how brilliant they are. In her opinion, your website copy isn’t just about words. Instead, your copy should be an entire vibe.
She is truly fabulous and I cannot wait to catch up with her. Andrea, welcome to the podcast.
Andrea
00:01:15.560 – 00:01:17.480
It’s so good to be back. I’m so excited.
Becca
00:01:17.560 – 00:01:37.620
Yes, well, I should have said, you’re right. Welcome back to the podcast. Now, I did a deep dive to see when you were last on the podcast.
I’ve been asking this trivia question to quite a few of my guests recently because they are repeat guests. And I was like, right. I started my podcast in 2022. We’re now in 2026. Any guesses where in that period you last appeared on the podcast?
Andrea
00:01:37.780 – 00:01:48.740
I think it was like early 2023, because 2023 is the time we the year we first met at Wedding mba. And so I knew you from the podcast. So sometime before that. Do you. I’m guessing you have the answer.
Becca
00:01:48.740 – 00:02:36.830
I have the answer. You’re right on the money though. You were episode 49. So we’re well in the 200 now. So you were in the first 50 episodes of the podcast.
February 2023 was your last appearance. So if people want to go listen to what we talked about back in 2023, go find episode 49. But wow, what a long way we’ve come.
In three years, we’ve met multiple Times we’ve worked together, multiple times we’ve spoken on stage together. Well, not actually together, but in the same place at wedding NBA. And it’s great to continue on that journey and see how far you’ve come.
See how far I’ve come. And yeah, it’s always fun to have returning guests.
So if anyone didn’t hear that episode back in 2023 or hasn’t seen you around in my community, just give a quick recap for people about who you are and what you do and how you ended up in the industry.
Andrea
00:02:37.070 – 00:03:16.570
So I am a website copywriter, mostly for wedding pros and educators within the wedding industry.
And so I write websites that are search optimized but also have your personality and give your work some context so that people know what they’re getting into when they book you and they’re really excited to do it. And like any good copywriter, I totally backed into the industry and did not like graduate college thinking I would do this.
But I worked for a while with a company that built websites and it was kind of a gradual process from there. And then when I worked with someone in the wedding industry for the first time, I absolutely fell in love with it. And now I have the best job ever.
Like, I get to go to really great events and meet creative people and it’s so much fun. It’s such a pleasure.
Becca
00:03:16.570 – 00:03:27.690
And which parts of your job do you like the most? So if I was to come to you for some copy, do you love writing web pages? Do you love writing emails? Do you love social media copy?
What’s your like, favorite thing to do?
Andrea
00:03:27.690 – 00:03:44.950
Websites? 100%. I love writing someone a good website because that’s kind of like your hub, right?
That’s where your social is going to send people, that’s where your email is going to send people.
And it’s one of the best ways to just showcase like that balance between your beautiful images of whatever work you do and why your work is worth what you charge.
Becca
00:03:45.030 – 00:04:23.090
And I absolutely love what I said about you in the intro about how you want your copy not to just be words on a website, to be an entire vibe. And I think even more so than when we last spoke in 2023, that’s really needed right now in our marketing. People buy from people.
That’s always been the same. But there is definitely this shift away from everything being vanilla and perfect and people wanting to see the real person.
I mean, even just in my world when I’m doing stuff, I’m always trying to bring what I call My Becca vibe to the front and center. People know what I’m like. They know who I am based on all of that good stuff. So do you agree?
Do you think being your own vibe is becoming increasingly important?
Andrea
00:04:23.490 – 00:05:00.910
Oh, my. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I.
If you look around on like Instagram too, you can see a shift away from like, the polished posts and carousels to like real photos of yourselves and a little bit of, I don’t want to say vulnerability, but just like a little bit of behind the scenes content and that sort of thing.
People want to know who they’re working with, with, and especially for their wedding, when they’re going to be interacting with you a bunch is maybe on a day where you know there’s a lot of emotional highs, maybe some emotional lows, they want to trust you. They want to feel like you’re someone they can really let into their world.
And if you don’t have any personality on your website, it’s going to be really hard for you to outrank or outperform the person who does.
Becca
00:05:01.150 – 00:05:24.220
Yeah. And I mean, I’ve leaned really hard into that and I love it. But I also know that a lot of people I work with, the thought of it feels scary.
So I definitely see people pushing back and going, oh, I don’t want to look unprofessional. What if they don’t like musical theater and you’re talking about it?
So when people say to you, oh, I don’t want to go that far, how do you encourage them that it’s a good thing rather than looking unprofessional?
Andrea
00:05:24.380 – 00:06:17.190
So I feel like professionalism is all about how you deliver. Right. If you deliver good work, you’re timely, you communicate well, you’re awesome to be around.
The way you show up online, it doesn’t have to be quote unquote professional. And it really depends. Everyone’s a little bit different.
So there are people who could swear up a storm and they still show up and they deliver amazing work and they’re booked out. And then there are people who are a little bit more reserved. And it’s okay if you’re a little bit more reserved.
You just have to find those points of connection with your people. So like you mentioned musical theater.
If someone’s super into musical theater, it doesn’t mean all your ideal clients are going to like it, but it gives some people a point where they’re like, oh, yeah, I love that too. Let’s talk about it. And it’s also just memorable, right? You’re going to be like, that’s the wedding planner who likes musical theater.
It’s just a little hook that gets in their brain because they have so many tabs open. They are looking at so many websites and so many Instagram profiles that you’ve got to give them something to remember.
Becca
00:06:17.270 – 00:06:42.100
Yes. So, so true.
Okay, so the industry has shifted a huge amount in the last even three years since we last spoke in the world of copy, in the world of websites. But just generally, the industry has shifted a huge amount.
I wonder what you’re seeing on the ground, whether there’s any things that you’re seeing that clients used to do that aren’t so important anymore, or if there’s more emphasis on certain parts of their website. What industry shifts can you see in your job day to day?
Andrea
00:06:42.180 – 00:07:41.640
I see people screaming for pricing on websites. They are desperate to see pricing on websites even at the higher end of the budget range.
I see people, if they can’t find your pricing, they will go to Reddit and they will ask around and they’ll be like, hey, how much does this person cost? And they could be a photographer that cost $25,000, but people still want to know before they inquire.
I the vibe I get from people is, I’m busy, I have a job, I have a social life, I have a lot going on. I do not want to send 100 emails just to get the pricing of everybody I might be interested in inquiring with. So that’s a huge thing.
Whereas I feel like back in the day when I got married, it was way more normal for a vendor to say, oh, I’ll give you custom pricing. And you’re like, ooh, custom pricing. That feels fancy. And you’d wait for it. Now people are used to having everything at their fingertips.
Another really interesting thing, and I know you’re all up on this too, is that they’re searching for vendors in chat G. Still nowhere near as much as Google, but people are using ChatGPT to look for vendors, and we need to be preparing for that.
Becca
00:07:41.640 – 00:08:22.520
Yeah, and pricing is important in that we recently had an AI expert on the podcast and they were talking about, actually, not only is it helpful for your couples to have price transparency, AI search is looking for it on your website because so often they put the information into tables and if it’s not there, they can’t find it. You’re just not going to show up. And so, yeah, I think that’s really interesting. And I think the thing is, all of us feel in some ways busier.
Like, it’s a noisy environment right now, so our couples feel busier. And I also see the suppliers feel busier and they’re trying to do all of the things.
So why is it key to get copy and their website and their vibe on their website so important? Because often I think it probably goes to the bottom of people’s lists.
Andrea
00:08:22.680 – 00:09:11.560
Because once you get people to your website, whether it’s through search or you gave them your business card or they found your Instagram profile, your website is what closes the deal and gets them to inquire with you. It’s what takes them from intrigued, an inquiry in your inbox.
And you need to just show up and tell them why you’re worth what you charge and what they’re going to get out of it and really make it easy on them.
If you can make it easy on them to know what they’re going to get, understand the decision they’re making, they are going to be more likely to get on that call or show up at that meeting or even just request information from you about how they can move forward with booking you. They just don’t want to spend the time looking at 50 people to get 10 possible vendors.
They really want to have the information right there and your copy is what nudges them in that direction.
Becca
00:09:11.640 – 00:09:56.830
So true.
Okay, I want to revisit the pricing page for a moment because I think, I’m guessing if you’ve done copy for websites, you’ve done copy for people’s pricing page.
And I think what with every area of the website, but particularly on the pricing page as well, it’s really hard to get that balance between being clear and direct and also having that personality and that vibe. Because, for example, a pricing page, ultimately, if you want everyone to know it’s pricing, we can call it pricing.
Whereas I think sometimes people are worried if they use a copywriter that will come up with some flowery word for it to make it sound really exciting. But then it doesn’t really work with the AI search or the SEO.
So how do you make sure that you balance that creativity, but also making sure it’s working for the business?
Andrea
00:09:57.070 – 00:11:08.060
I do feel like your pricing page is the place to be clear over clever.
Which isn’t to say we can’t have a little personality on it, but we want to make sure that especially if you’re a business that does packages you want to like. You know, I’ve worked with Mike the DJ and we have done a pricing page for him which is very package based. It’s not there’s no questions.
Like you don’t leave that page with any question in your mind about what it’s going to cost to book him. You go through the packages, you look at the add ons and you can whip out your calculator and no before you even inquire.
And I think that’s so valuable to people who are looking. You still get a sense of his personality. There’s still a fun headline.
We’ve organized it, you know, with frequently asked questions and that thing, that sort of thing in a way that makes it easy to read. But they want that information straight up there. And yeah, we, we don’t want to use super flowery terms for it.
I am anti flowery words in like the navigation on your website and that sort of thing. Like if people are looking for a blog, I know it’s an ugly word, but call it a blog, that’s what they’re looking for.
We make all of these decisions in split seconds about our websites or when we’re surfing website, we make split second decisions and if you cause any friction, if you make it harder for them, they’ll close out the tab and on.
Becca
00:11:08.140 – 00:11:31.840
I really like the phrase you said. I’ve written it down. Clear over clever. The pricing page is a place to be clear over clever. So I love that term.
So let’s think of the website as a whole then. For a wedding professional, are there places on your website where you can try and be more creative and more clear?
Like more creative and are there places where you absolutely need to just be clear and how do we work that out?
Andrea
00:11:32.000 – 00:13:04.900
Yes. So I think on your homepage, what goes at the top of your homepage is another place where you need to be clear first of all.
And then if you want to have a pretty, you know, descriptive tagline, you can.
But if you are a wedding planner and you’re based in London, you need to tell people so straight up, you’re a London wedding planner because you have such little time to make that first impression and they need to know, I always say when your homepage loads, they need to know right away who you are, what you do, where you are, if location matters for the type of service you’re selling, which isn’t true for everybody, then you can have a fun tagline and then later down the homepage you can do some storytelling, you can talk about the experience you create for people, you can get a little creative. Same with your about page. I don’t want to read an about page that reads like a LinkedIn page. I want A little.
I want to know who’s behind this, I want to know how you started this work, what interesting experience you bring to the job that’s going to make you the person for it.
Whereas your pricing page, the top of your homepage and I would also say your contact page, don’t get too fun and funky with the questions on your inquiry form. Keep it short, keep it relevant. And I always say, like, ask an open ended question and give the yappers room to yap about their wedding.
But know that there are also some people who just want to be like, we’re having a wedding in Edinburgh on this day, we’re expecting 200 people and that’s all the details you’re going to get from them in the very beginning and that’s fine too. And then you have someone else who’s going to tell you their entire love story, start to finish in that little space on your form.
Give them each the option to do that and just let them, you know, fill in what details feel relevant to them.
Becca
00:13:04.900 – 00:14:26.970
That’s so interesting. It’s actually bringing up something in my mind.
Sometimes I spend a lot of time when I’m working with clients and we’re looking at their form, deciding which fields should be, you have to fill them in and which fields should be, you don’t have to fill them in because I think sometimes we have a tendency to just set the form up and make everything that it has to be filled in. And actually we do need to go into that granular detail on such a small point because actually we don’t need everything, we only need the basics.
And so I always say like things like wedding date, I often put on people’s forms, wedding day if known.
Because sometimes like if we just put wedding date and you have to put in a date on a calendar and they haven’t decided yet but they’re genuinely interested. We’re counting them out immediately. And so it’s just thinking things through like that.
I think the detail is really important, where it needs to be really clear and easy and where we can be clever. And I always say this, copywriters always have the best about pages. I love all of the copywriters I work with.
I go to your about pages and they’re always so fun and full of personality. I think we all need to have better about me pages. But I think again, it goes to the bottom of the pile. I feel like that about my about page.
I think, oh, I, I don’t really care what it says, but actually I should, I should care what it says. And I probably have the most creative freedom there.
So here’s a little reminder to people, Go update your about page and make it sound a little bit more exciting than it is now. Andrew, you go for it.
Andrea
00:14:26.970 – 00:15:16.020
I was, I was gonna say on your about page.
The other thing I love to do is a lot of times, if you’ve been in any industry before the wedding or the events industry, a lot of times people are like, well, that’s relevant. I’m gonna leave it out. But sometimes there’s a really interesting story there that informs your work.
And that’s one of my favorite things to dig into. Like, I just wrote about page copy for an elopement photographer who was a massage therapist.
And you’d think, oh, the two aren’t related, but they totally are because it taught her how to read the room, pick up on someone’s energy, make people feel comfortable, and now those skills are transferable to her new job. So. And I know you also didn’t start in the wedding industry, right? So you and I are kind of on the same page there. We have a story to tell.
Because sometimes your experience outside the industry is what really makes you expert. It makes you interesting. And I don’t want people to overlook that story. It can be really powerful.
Becca
00:15:16.430 – 00:16:40.540
100 And you need to shout it from the rooftop sometimes because it’s interesting.
Often I talk to people on the podcast and I go quite far back in their stories and always there’s something interesting to learn before they got into the wedding industry. And it is a really important piece. You know, I’ve spoken to people who’ve worked on Disney cruises.
I’ve spoken to people who’ve been professional dancers. I’ve spoken to people that have, you know, worked in a really high powered job in London and then decided they wanted to quit it all.
I’ve had people own other businesses and actually it makes perfect sense. And my own background is in television and radio production. I talk about that a lot. And I saw something actually that wound me up a little bit.
I’ll be honest.
On the Instagram the other day where I saw someone say we shouldn’t listen to any educators that didn’t do at least 10 years in the wedding industry, something like that. And I was like, well, why not?
Because actually, maybe, you know, someone who’s worked as a photographer for 10 years doesn’t have as much marketing experience as someone who’s done marketing for television, radio and big brands. And so actually it’s a falsehood sometimes. And actually, what we have done in the past could make us more valuable, not less valuable.
And I think sometimes people are scared of saying that. Like it’s easier to be like, oh, I was a planner for 10 years and now I’m an educator.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean if you weren’t a planner for 10 years and you just did something else that you can’t help educate because you probably have a lot of real world experience in that.
Andrea
00:16:40.700 – 00:17:31.400
Yeah, absolutely, I agree with you.
And also, sometimes people from outside of the industry can look at things with a fresh perspective and things that are obvious to you or things that are like in your business, you know, you get in the weeds in your business, you’re in the day to day, you’re dealing with all this stuff and you need someone to come in and tell you there’s an easier way to do this. But you’re having trouble seeing it because none of us can see our own business clearly sometimes.
You know, like we all need a board of advisors to come in and tell us like, okay, clean this up.
It’s really obvious to me, and I say that as a copywriter writing my own website copy, I’ve had people come in and be like, but you do all this awesome stuff and you’re not talking about it. And I’m like, oh, I didn’t know that was awesome stuff. You know, so we all need third party people.
Whether it’s someone like you to advise on marketing, whether it’s a copywriter, whether it’s just like a friend to be like, hey, you’re excellent at this. Make sure you talk about it more.
Becca
00:17:31.480 – 00:18:00.100
Yeah, a hundred percent. I totally agree with you.
Now you work with lots of great clients and I always think it’s interesting because when I’m talking to someone like a copywriter, often the people you’re working with are people, people that are pretty successful. That’s why they feel like they can invest in a copywriter. Right. And so you’re working with some of the most successful pros in the industry.
Do you see any patterns in those pros behavior? What, what are you seeing in those people that are successful right now? What are they focusing on? What’s important to them?
Andrea
00:18:00.420 – 00:19:28.640
So I would say that they are working on their visibility. They always have a strategy in place for being visible within the industry.
Whether that’s just attending conferences, speaking at conferences, showing up and creating content online. They have. PR is another big one.
I don’t know how big the wedding PR market is in the uk, but I know in the States A lot of successful wedding professionals are really invested in getting quoted in major newspapers and magazines, getting their weddings published, all of that stuff. They have a strategy. Everyone’s strategy is totally different.
Some people are trying to get quoted in the New York Times, some people are trying to take off on TikTok, but they’re thinking about their strategy and they’re really doing it.
As far as their websites go, I will say that one of the traps I see people fall into is thinking that your industry role models, website is going to work for you especially, especially photographers.
Because a lot of times really successful photographers who’ve been in business for 15, 20 years, they have these minimalist websites with tons of images and all of that, and they’re beautiful to look at, but that person’s not relying on their website to book them clients, they are, or they’re just using it as kind of a portfol. They get their referrals from planners. They’re really well known. They’ve been published in Brides and Vogue.
You have to take a slightly different tack if you’re up and coming in the industry and you have to do what’s working for people now.
You have to think about SEO, you have to think about AI, you have to be active on Instagram, like it or not, these are the things that are working right now.
Becca
00:19:28.720 – 00:20:52.770
And what’s the most important part of what you just said is the most successful pros right now have a strategy. And I think that is a big learning piece for a lot of people listening to this podcast.
And a lot of the people I work with, one to one, where I meet with them, I’m like, right, what? They say, what do I got to do? And my first question is, what is working right now? And then they say, I don’t know. And so they’re going into it cold.
And when you haven’t got a proper strategy, what happens is you end up doing a bit over here, doing a bit over there, then wondering why that doesn’t work, and then signing up for this course, going on to this training, and then you’re so buzzy with all these different ideas, and then you try a bit of everything, and then you get frustrated that nothing works. And actually, if you sit down and you go, right, what’s my strategy? I want to be more visible. I want to show up on Google more.
I want to show more of my vibe. Okay, well, maybe I need to invest in someone to write some copy for me so that I can do that at the best standard.
Or maybe I need to Invest in someone to help me make content. Whatever your strategy is will then impact your decisions. But so many people in this industry do not have a strategy.
And so if you’re hearing this and you’re thinking, that’s me, then let me encourage you.
Before you invest in anything else, work out what your strategy is, either alone with an AI tool or in person with someone like me, because we will sit down and do that. So you can then make informed decisions and spend your money and your time wisely. Right, Rant over. I feel like I’ve ranted a lot today, Andrew.
I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m in a ranting kind of mood.
Andrea
00:20:52.770 – 00:21:36.580
Oh, yeah, I absolutely agree with you on that one.
And I would also say that when you pick a strategy, understand how long it’s going to take to work before you invest your time and your energy and your money. And then don’t panic if you don’t get instant results. Like, I’m like that I’ll post on Instagram.
And then I’m like, well, I don’t have five new clients. Instagram’s not working after I made one post a month. It’s like, obviously not.
You have to commit some time and energy and then you have to give things time to work. Especially if we’re talking about SEO, that does not happen overnight.
If you have hire someone to do a website, if you have someone do blogging, it is you are laying the foundations for the future. It’s super important. But chances are you’re probably not going to get five times the traffic the next week after you launch your website.
Becca
00:21:36.740 – 00:22:59.480
And sometimes this stuff is actually quite intangible. So, for example, let’s talk about website design. Website copy.
It’s not that you suddenly update your copy and all of a sudden your ideal clients are flocking to you.
Actually, it could just be that more of the people that were coming in the first place are now sticking around for longer or actually filling out the inquiry form. And so if people are trying to do this stuff for a quick fix or an instant result, then they again, they get frustrated.
It’s actually such a bigger picture thing that they need to look at. And you’re right, is laying that groundwork and then letting it grow over time. And yes, revisiting.
And yes, looking at, okay, have my conversions gone up since I updated the copy, but that’s not going to happen immediately. That’s like in a year’s time. Look back and then compare the data. So, yeah, totally agree.
We mentioned a little bit earlier about SEO and AI, and I guess particularly AI, now it’s starting to change the game. Over the last 12 months, we’re hearing it talked about more and more and more. We’re all using it more.
The robots are taking over and we’re using it in a variety of ways. So some people may be using it to come up with their own copy, other people are using it to search for their vendors.
So therefore you want to show up in the search. There’s lots of different use cases for AI. Do you think the rise of AI is impacting the way you are now writing copy for websites?
Andrea
00:22:59.480 – 00:24:11.490
Absolutely.
And the advice I’m giving people, and I’m someone who doesn’t use AI much in my own work, but I will say that I have to adapt to what couples are doing when they’re searching. And so we are definitely taking into account what AI is looking for. You mentioned earlier, it’s looking for pricing to put it into tables.
And I’m telling people all the time, it’s not just pricing, it’s your years of experience. It’s a few other things that they really want to make those little tables.
And then sometimes even getting outside of the box advice like, hey, if you have a profile on the knot, you need to keep it updated. Not because you want leads to come through there. I mean, great if you do, if that’s part of your strategy.
But whether or not you’re spending time and money on the knot, chat GPT is looking at it to try and pull information for your business. So we do have to take into account changes in strategy.
That being said, the thing is, people will see you in certain search and then they will click over to your website. So you still want to have that personable copy, you still want to have clear descriptors. Chances are someone’s not going to see you come up.
Especially if you’re a more expensive vendor in a chat GPT search and be like, great booked. I’m not even looking at their website. Like, that’s not what happens. It’s all a funnel, it’s a process.
And you still want them to go to a website that feels like you.
Becca
00:24:11.570 – 00:24:36.110
Yeah, but if we don’t show up, then the chance of us then coming to our website is lower. So it’s always that balance, isn’t it? And again, it’s not a quick fix. Right?
You can’t just suddenly do something on your website and suddenly AI is telling everyone that you’re the in the whole world. It’s the little things. It’s the foundations. Are you doing anything with any of your clients around adding FAQs to the bottom of pages?
Because I know at one point that was something that was being talked about a lot as something that I liked.
Andrea
00:24:36.110 – 00:25:18.970
Yep, absolutely. Either. Occasionally we’ll do an FAQ page separate if we have a ton of questions.
That’s common for my elopement photographer clients, but for most clients, it’s a section on your services page or individual service pages with questions 100%. And I was recommending that even before AI because for SEO, it’s also really good.
It’s a great way to fit in more keywords, and you have your close readers and your skimmers. And I am a skimmer. I like to go through a page quickly.
I like to read the headlines, see the price, but I love to read a Frequently Asked Questions section. And I think a lot of quick readers are like that. That we will tab, tab, tab. And find that Frequently Asked Questions section and go through it.
So it’s really important to have on there for a number of different readers and buyer types, too.
Becca
00:25:18.970 – 00:26:18.410
You know, something I’ve been doing recently with AI, which is incredibly lazy.
But if I see a page and it’s got a lot of information, sometimes I’m just copying and pasting it into AI, going, can you just summarize this for me in two sentences? Which is terrible, but it’s because I’m thinking, I haven’t got time to read all this. I just want to know the key information. So you’re right.
Like, we. We want everything and we want it quick, and we need it to be easy to digest because we’re in busy lives. So, yeah, it’s interesting to see that.
Okay, on the other side, then. So maybe there’s wedding pros who are listening to this who are using AI themselves to write copy.
Maybe they’re trying to write their captions with it. Maybe they’re trying to write their websites with it. I don’t know what they’re using it for.
But how, as wedding professionals do we maintain our unique voice when we’re living in this AI bland world? Because I find a lot of the time when we use AI to spit out copy, it makes us all sound the same.
And so what we’re seeing is everyone’s captions are kind of looking the same. Everyone’s websites are kind of looking the same. So how do we keep that unique voice?
Andrea
00:26:18.650 – 00:27:30.040
So I would say that obviously edit any copy that you produce through AI, But I would also recommend people stay informed on, like, the Tropes that AI is kind of pumping out. There’s a lot of. And they come from real human writers. This is all based on what real human writers did.
But AI will latch onto one thing and use it in everyone’s copy. So the one I hear about a lot right now is it’s not X, it’s Y. And everyone’s using, like, formats of that.
You want to stay up to date on what those things are so that you know when there are these AI tells showing up in your writing. And you can kind of eliminate those, rewrite them, and make sure you sound a little bit more human. Read it aloud to yourself.
If it doesn’t sound like something you would say, maybe it’s not the right copy for your website. Because ultimately you don’t want to mismatch between the way you show up at a consultation and the way your website sounds.
You don’t want to catfish people. You want them to feel like they’ve got the real you on your website.
And so if your website’s copy is AI written and it’s super formal and you show up and you’re really casual and relaxed and have a totally different vocabulary, people are going to be like, huh, that’s a little weird. So, yeah, you want to make sure it’s a match for how you sound. Reading it aloud is one of the best tricks in the book.
Becca
00:27:30.040 – 00:27:34.640
Yeah. Because then when you read it, you think, that definitely doesn’t sound like something I would say.
Andrea
00:27:34.640 – 00:27:43.200
Right. You cringe and you’re like, oh.
And it’s like, okay, well, you know, if you’re cringing, you know that you shouldn’t be, you know, you shouldn’t be including that.
Becca
00:27:43.200 – 00:28:01.700
And presumably we should really be doing that even if we’re getting a copywriter to write our work for us.
So if you were to write a page on my website, even though you’re not AI, I should still be doing that to go, oh, actually, I wouldn’t say it like that. I would say it like this. Can we tweak it slightly so it’s not just about handing it over and giving it to someone else in any capacity.
We still gotta be part of the process.
Andrea
00:28:01.860 – 00:28:26.330
Yes, 100%. And I feel like there’s sometimes this idea that, like, you should give.
You should do a questionnaire and a call with copywriter, and they’re gonna spit out copy that sounds exactly like you, 100%. And you’re never gonna need to edit it. It’s usually more collaborative than that because is you’ll realize in the process that, oh, she wrote that.
That’s not actually how I would say it. I’d say it a little bit differently. And you bounce that back to me and I’m like, great, thanks for telling me. We’ll rewrite it from there.
Becca
00:28:26.330 – 00:28:44.040
Yeah, really interesting. Okay, let’s talk mistakes. One of the favorite things I love to talk about is mistakes we’re seeing people making.
So when you look out at the industry as a whole and you see people with their websites and their social copy and their email copy, where do you think they’re making mistakes? What are some of the common mistakes? Mistakes you see people doing.
Andrea
00:28:44.120 – 00:30:15.470
The number one mistake I see is too much. I not enough. You, you readers are self interested. We’re all selfish.
Like whether we acknowledge it or not, we’re all focused on us and what this person can do for us and we don’t necessarily want to hear I, I, I, I really encourage people to look critically at their copy and think about where you can change your I sentences to you sentences and really focus on your reader. That alone will make such a huge difference. The other thing I find is that people are often too wordy and there’s a lot of room for trimming.
And also if you’re using ChatGPT, that’s one of the things that I think it does. There’s a lot of fluff in the copy and you really want to trim it out. It’s tricky.
You want to find a balance because Google does want a certain number of words per page for SEO purposes. But at the same time, you don’t want, we don’t want. Like you said, you’re summarizing pages.
You don’t want to read seven paragraphs about the first time somebody turns took wedding photos or something like that. It’s just too much. We need to trim a little bit. That’s one of the other mistakes that I see people do. Oh, and one more.
You’re not putting enough call to action buttons on your webpages. Especially because people are using their phones to look at your website and they don’t want to scroll super far for a call to action button.
Almost always you’re not putting enough on your website and you need, you need one more, you need two more. Like people, we people are so lazy. You’re so lazy. And people want just the button to be easier to click.
And you might be listening and being like, yeah, but I mean if they really want a book being bail scroll maybe, but why not make it just a little easier on them?
Becca
00:30:15.550 – 00:30:58.750
Yeah. 100 We should make it easier on them. I think people should have way more buttons on their website.
I’m always saying to people the things that you’re saying. Why is the first sentence on your website? I’m so and so. And here’s what I do. Like, why are we not talking to you? Why.
Why are you making me scroll 20,000 miles down this page until I get a button?
And I think the other thing that’s interesting about what you’re saying, yes, we need to balance the copy, but also it’s that part that comes with the design because you can get away with seven paragraphs of text if the actual design of the page works and it’s broken up and it’s interesting and it’s fun and, you know, and it’s got headings. So again, so much of what you’re doing, the wording still only works well if it fits nicely with the design element.
Andrea
00:30:58.750 – 00:31:32.540
Yep. It’s complimented by the work a designer does. Like, a really good designer can’t take the copy and make it.
There’s so many fun things you can do with websites nowadays. A bullet point list doesn’t actually have to be actual bullet points on a page.
It can be cute little squares or whatever that like, pop up as people are scrolling. But there’s lots of creative ways to display information. A good designer is incredible. I’d say have your copy.
If you’re looking to hire people to do both, have someone write your copy first so they can hand it off to the designer and then the designer can make the most of laying out that copy to make it effective.
Becca
00:31:32.700 – 00:31:42.200
So it works perfectly when you do both things together.
Because you can have great copy and a terrible design, or great design and terrible coffee, but actually you need both of the things to make the magic work.
Andrea
00:31:42.280 – 00:31:42.720
Yes.
Becca
00:31:42.720 – 00:32:18.670
Okay, let’s talk briefly about email marketing. So I’m going into 2026. We’re, you know, quarter one, 2026, considering email marketing more deeply. I’ve always loved email marketing.
I do think it still works, but I also feel like a lot of people are falling out of love with it in terms of from a consumer point of view. I feel like there’s too.
People are getting wise to the tricks of the trade and you get these emails, you think, oh, I know why you’re sending me that email. Have you got any thoughts about email copy? What’s working this year?
If you’ve got any clients or even newsletters that you’re subscribed to that work really well and you think, yeah, this is still working in 2026.
Andrea
00:32:18.990 – 00:33:26.450
So I think there’s a couple different groups of people who use email marketing differently. So educators like you, newsletters are great. Storytelling based newsletters are great. People should enjoy reading them.
They should be just, you know, fun with a story that kind of pivots into explaining something or maybe selling something, depending on the goal of your email. And I think that’s really beneficial for wedding pros. It doesn’t always work as well because your sales cycle isn’t that long.
You know, you have a couple months to get people to hire you and if they don’t, it’s because, you know they’re not going to come back, they’re getting married. So I feel like what people can be doing is sending a couple emails. If inquiries don’t book a call or a consultation or something right away.
I’m also seeing a lot of people trying text messaging for that purpose too. There’s a lot of of push towards trying texting inquiries just to set up a more casual conversation.
And I don’t know what that looks like in the UK as much, whether people are open to receiving text messages or going via WhatsApp channels. But in the States a lot of wedding vendors are trying that now.
Becca
00:33:26.450 – 00:34:46.969
Yeah. So here in the UK, the text messaging itself, not so much.
WhatsApp is definitely a bigger channel here and I’ve definitely been encouraging people to use it as a source of contact. So having a button on their website page where someone can directly inquire via WhatsApp and then have that back and forth conversation.
But I also say if they have left their phone number, that is kind of a maybe not a first resort.
But if you’re two or three down and you’re not sure if they’ve even got your email or if they’re even reading emails, a quick WhatsApp message isn’t a bad thing. But. But again, there’s lots of warnings with that.
I’m suggesting people use a business WhatsApp rather than integrating it with your personal WhatsApp have boundaries, all of the stuff that comes with that. But yes, I wouldn’t say that we’re first to jump to a text. Definitely not a text or even a WhatsApp.
If they inquire, then yes, we want to chat to them in that way. But we are seeing a push towards people wanting that more informal conversation. I’m sure you’re seeing that too.
Like people would rather just send a couple of texts rather than read a big long email. And even I do that sometimes.
Sometimes I think, oh, I could email Andrea about moving this appointment, but instead I’d rather just voice note her or I’d rather just send her a quick message on Instagram because it’s quicker for me, it’s quicker for her and otherwise it’s going to get lost in email.
I think, well, if I’m doing that, then consumers who are younger than me and planning their wedding and are overwhelmed and working full time jobs are probably thinking the same thing.
Andrea
00:34:47.209 – 00:36:11.630
And I think voice notes are a really clever thing too because I think about when I was planning my wedding and I was also working a very traditional hours office job, I didn’t have the time or the freedom to get on calls outside of my lunch hour.
But it would have been super easy to walk out to the parking lot for five minutes and leave someone a short voice note saying, yes, we’re having a wedding on these dates. It’s this number of guests we’re really interested in booking with you.
I think that sometimes we get so hung up on our own boundaries that we resist communicating with our clients the way they want to communicate with us. And I think you have to find a balance. Obviously you don’t want to be texting people at three in the morning or anything like that.
What you said about having a business WhatsApp, so there’s some separation is really important.
But I do think sometimes as we, especially as we get older, I’m not as young as I used to be, we resist like new forms of communication or we’ll be like, why don’t they just pick up the phone and call us? That’s not the way they work. And if you have all the leads you can handle without trying new things, then keep on keeping on.
Don’t feel like you have to change things.
But if you are sitting here listening and you’re thinking, I don’t get as many leads or people are ghosting, then I encourage you to open your mind a little bit to different ways of communication and see if having people send you voice notes or WhatsApp you is going to turn into more like consultation calls or more bookings because you’d be.
Becca
00:36:11.630 – 00:37:35.860
Surprised and to follow on from that.
Actually, even if you are someone that’s got a lot of leads coming in right now, you also don’t want to be the person that then suddenly gets left behind.
So although you may not need to make changes immediately, you may want to start investigating and adding on little things because otherwise what you see is someone’s really successful and then for the next two, three years Everyone else has moved on, they’re still really successful. They keep doing the same things and then suddenly they hit a wall and they’re so far behind and their inquiries drop off.
So whether you’ve got loads of inquiries right now or none, like, keep on top of what’s going on, even if you don’t need to make drastic changes, at least pay attention. Keep in the know, go to the conferences, listen to the podcast, podcast, keep notes for later.
Because especially in this industry when it is so cyclical, you know, you need to know that you’ll keep on getting new clients and that can just stop if the stuff you’re doing is drying up. So, yeah, keep. Keep on top of the game wherever you’re. You are.
And I think, going back to my question earlier about who are the most successful pros that we work with, in my mind, when I work with really successful people, they’re just because they’re successful, they haven’t stopped doing stuff. Stuff. So they’re successful because they’re always keen to learn.
They’re always putting themselves in rooms with other people even though they’ve already got a big network. They’re always trying to grow that network or increase that network or, you know, make that network better.
It’s actually often the businesses that aren’t as successful that aren’t doing the things they need to be doing that.
Andrea
00:37:35.860 – 00:38:37.900
And I would also say that the most successful people we know don’t just have one channel for their marketing. They are always across a couple of channels and they’re different. Like, you talk about someone like Elizabeth, who is on TikTok all the time.
I have other clients who are hugely successful who don’t touch TikTok, but they’ve got a wait list, they’ve got a website, they’re really invested in blogging, they’re on Instagram five times a week.
You’ve got other people who maybe they don’t do social as much, but they are at every conference and they are building a referral network that’s really great. Everyone needs at least two or three. We’ve seen here in the States, they’re always like going back and forth on whether or not to shut down TikTok.
And it’s like if you put all your eggs in the TikTok basket or you put all your EG in the Instagram basket, things can change. I strongly encourage you to have more than one channel so that if one drops out for whatever reason beyond your control, you’re still not at zero.
You know, you can always build Back up on social and whatever. But I really encourage people to have a couple avenues of getting clients to.
Becca
00:38:37.900 – 00:39:21.520
You and always have that strong website to fall back on because that is your. That stays there and it suddenly that’s your account down.
Like we had a client that we were working with with a lot like a huge TikTok following and they woke up one morning and TikTok had banned them. And so they’re now having to fight to get that back open. But it’s scary. It can just happen overnight.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it, but we need that presence elsewhere so that it can. We’ve got it there in the background if we need it.
So what do you think’s next for our industry then, Andrew, as we go through 26 into 2027, do you see foresee anything coming in the world of copy? Do you think, think there’s going to be any big changes? Or do you think it’s more about just keeping on doing what we’re doing?
Andrea
00:39:21.760 – 00:41:21.830
I think where there’s room for a lot of change is educating people about what things cost. Because one thing I’ve been noticing is that clients are frustrated.
They have an Instagram feed or a TikTok for you page full of gorgeous weddings and they’re like, oh, yeah, I want that, I want that. And they have no idea how much any of it costs. And when some influencer has a big wedding, there’s not a price tag attached.
Nobody’s telling you that that floral installation you like, costs $60,000 or whatever.
And I think where I’m seeing people go is on their websites, on their socials, educating people a little bit more about what these things cost so there’s not this, like, major disappointment.
Instead, we should have a rough idea that like, yeah, that wedding costs $2 million and you’re not going to be able to pull off the exact same thing with even a tenth that budget, you know, because people are really frustrated. They feel like they see all these beautiful things. They also see AI mockups and of things that are like, practically unachievable.
And there’s a little bit of frustration right now. And I think there’s room for a lot of wedding pros to step into that gap and educate people a little bit without being too didactic.
Educate people and say, you know what, like, let’s break down, let’s take a celebrity wedding and break down what I think their florals cost or whatever and play around with that content a little bit. It would be a really good way to, to get yourself seen and to position yourself like you’re on their side.
Because I do think that a lot of people feel like the wedding industry here is their enemy. And, you know, it’s a scam. They’re just trying to.
I’m like, I know that a wedding photographer who charges X amount of money for a wedding isn’t taking all of that money home. And when you divide that take home pay over so many hours of editing and marketing and photographing, it doesn’t actually.
They’re not making 300 an hour like clients often think, but they don’t know that. And so I think there’s a lot of room for people to step in and educate.
Becca
00:41:21.830 – 00:42:09.770
Yeah, there’s some great content ideas in there, even with your own works.
If you’re a cake maker, a florist like you could pull up on TikTok particularly, this would do well, like a picture of one of your own cakes, even from Instagram. And do a little green screen and be like, want to know how much this cake costs? I’m going to tell you and just literally say, this is what it is.
This is why it costs this much. This is how long it took me to make it. This how long it took me to ice it.
It would have been cheaper if they’d have only had two layers and it would have only cost this much. Like, people love that.
Because I also am seeing a lot of ranty content from brides and grooms right now going, why do vendors not put their prices on their website? It’s definitely out there, so if you can be the antidote to it, I love it. Andrea, this has been a great conversation as always.
Now I’m going to end the podcast like I always do, asking you this question. What’s one thing you personally wish you’d known sooner in your own business?
Andrea
00:42:10.170 – 00:43:17.180
Set aside time for your marketing. Don’t just say you’re going to do it. Set aside a time block in your week. Make it fun, too.
Don’t, like, treat yourself to your favorite coffee or light a candle, your favorite snack, whatever. Make a little ritual out of it. Little treats are great here and make it something you look forward to.
But set aside time every week because it’s so easy, especially when your business is going well and you have enough inquiries to be like, I don’t need to market, I got client work, I’ve got all this stuff to do. I’ve got weddings to plan, I’ve got photos to edit, I’ve got cakes to bake, and it falls to the wayside.
And then you can come up with a really big dry spell because you just haven’t been putting in the effort. So make a little ritual out of it.
Whether it’s 15 minutes a day or two hours a week or one day every two weeks, set aside that time, block it off on your calendar and make it more of a priority than anything else. You have to treat your business like it’s client work in order to like, like prioritize it. We all fall into that trap.
I am not saying I have never done that, but I think it’s a really good idea. I. I’m learning to do that myself. It’s an ongoing process.
Becca
00:43:17.340 – 00:44:06.720
I’m all about the treats. I quite often say that to my clients as well.
If they’ve got a piece of work and they’re like, I don’t want to do that, I say to them, right, well, put in a time in your diary for half a day next week.
Go to the coffee shop that you like, order the piece of cake you like and the coffee you like, and then do it because you’ll look forward to doing it because you know you’re going to do it alongside something nice. I gamify that in my own life. I hate doing the grocery shopping if I don’t want to do the grocery shopping.
Sometimes I say to myself, becca, if you do that grocery shopping today, you can treat yourself for a drive through coffee on the way back to your desk to say, well done you for doing the grocery shopping. So gamify the task you don’t like. Treat yourself. If it works and it gets it done, just do it. I’m all for it, Andrea. It’s been great.
If people want to find out more about you, about your copy services, about just life in general in the world of Andrea, where are the best places for them to find you?
Andrea
00:44:06.720 – 00:44:13.400
You can find me on my website, which is andrea shaw.com and then I’m also on both Instagram and Threads all the time as Andrea Shaw. Copy.
Becca
00:44:13.400 – 00:44:18.120
Oh, threads. I haven’t heard anyone mention Threads for a long time. You still enjoying it over there?
Andrea
00:44:18.600 – 00:44:37.120
Yeah, there’s a lot of. You know what? Threads is a great place if you want to hang out and get insights from real couples about what they’re thinking about wedding planning.
They will put it all out there and it’s really informative for wedding vendors. So I spend a lot of time kind of researching, peeking, lurking, listening, all of that good stuff.
Becca
00:44:37.750 – 00:44:52.790
Love that. Well, maybe there’s something that people need to do and go and have a little browse over their cup of tea.
Go and have a look at what people are seeing and saying on threads. Andrea, it’s been so much fun talking to you. I hope to see you in person somewhere very soon, but thank you so much for your time.
Andrea
00:44:52.870 – 00:44:53.990
Thank you for having me.
Becca
00:44:54.310 – 00:45:21.160
So good to have Andrea back on the podcast.
I think it’s really interesting to revisit guests that I’ve had on the podcast before to see how the industry has shifted, to see how what they’re teaching has changed, changed, and how what matters has also changed over the last few years. I hope that you’ve taken a lot away from today. Go and audit your own copy. Are you talking too much about yourself?
Can you start talking about your couple more? And are there simple tweaks you can make, like the name of your pricing page? I’ll see you next time.
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