Show notes:
Are you and your wedding business aligned? Today I’m catching up with Lina Orsino-Allen, half of Lina and Tom Photography. Lina’s ethos is to see you grow a soul led business that can thrive without burnout. I’ve known Lina as part of the wedding industry for nearly 10 years, so it’s an absolute pleasure to have her on the podcast today. Lina will also be part of my real wed pro panel at Wed Pros Live London – we hope to see you there!
Book your ticket for Wed Pros Live.
Time stamps:
- 00:00 – Rediscovering the Joy in Wedding Businesses
- 09:39 – The Journey into Wedding Photography
- 10:40 – Building Confidence in Your Photography Business
- 24:52 – Navigating Desperation in the Wedding Industry
- 34:12 – The Shifting Landscape of Client Relationships
- 44:33 – Navigating Business Burnout and New Beginnings
- 53:10 – Embracing Intuition in Business
Transcript:
Lina
00:00:00.240 – 00:00:23.440
Often if we take a step back from our wedding businesses and not put so much pressure on them, we can get the joy back.
So I think, because if you think about it, so many people enter this industry from either a hobby or a passion and then all of a sudden it becomes your income and then it gets real serious and we can lose the love of it.
Becca
00:00:23.680 – 00:01:28.630
I’m Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger and you’re listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I’m here share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you’re in the right place. Let’s get going with today’s episode. Today I’m chatting with Lena Orsino Allen 1 1/2 of the incredible Lena and Tom photography.
As a husband and wife team, they have spent the last 16 plus years photographing weddings across the UK, Italy, Spain, Greece and even Mexico. In 2021, Lena set up Lena de la Luna working with clients on holistic business coaching and spiritual mentorship.
Lena’s ethos is to see you grow a soul led business that can thrive without burnout. I’ve known Lena as part of the wedding industry for nearly 10 years, so it’s an absolute pleasure to have her on the podcast today.
Lena, welcome to the podcast.
Lina
00:01:28.630 – 00:01:31.570
Thanks. So, Becca, it’s lovely to be here.
Becca
00:01:31.570 – 00:01:52.850
Well, I am thrilled to have you on. Like I said, we’ve known each other a long time. We haven’t actually seen each other in person forever.
I was actually trying to remember the first time we met.
I can’t pinpoint it exactly, but I know it was a long time ago and so it’s great to have you and to see all of the things you’ve achieved since we first met and all the things I’ve achieved since we first met. Things have changed a lot over the last decade.
Lina
00:01:52.850 – 00:02:24.430
They sure have. And do you know what? I think it’s actually over 10 years because Tom and I will be celebrating 17 years in January of our business.
So I think we’ve actually, I, I think it’s probably more than 10 years and I think we first met you at a small networking event in a hotel somewhere in Hertfordshire. I have a feeling, you know, back when you did the films and so, yeah, we definitely go way back and it’s. I’m delighted we’re both still Here. Right.
And in the industry.
Becca
00:02:25.390 – 00:03:09.330
Yeah, absolutely. It’s an incredible achievement to be in this industry for as long as you have and as long as I have. And it’s. It’s not always an easy place to be.
We’ seen a lot of change over time, which we’ll go into in a little while as well. But it’s great to have you on the podcast today and I’m excited for people to hear more from you.
And actually I’m going to bring up something that I heard you say a number of years ago that’s really impacted me and my teaching.
So I’m going to let you wait to hear that a little bit later on as well, because sometimes we don’t know the impact things we say have on other people. Anyway, let’s go back and find out more about you. So take us back through your career. When did you start taking photos? How.
How did you start taking photos? And have you always done your that or did you have an alternative job originally?
Lina
00:03:09.330 – 00:05:16.300
So yes. So photography came to me as a job in my twenties. Before that, theater was my first love.
And so I did an undergrad degree in dance and drama where I specialized in directing and choreography and then came out of uni, starting up a theatre company.
So I was directing and producing my own theatre shows and then kind of veered more towards the producer side and so ended up moving to London to kind of pursue that. I worked on some shows, for example, with the Shakespeare Fringe Festival in London. And also I enjoyed being front of house in London.
So I got real experience of kind of running venues, being the supervisor whilst theater shows were going on. And from that I decided to get online. And this is the funny thing about how I ended up in a duo, a photography duo.
I realized working in London theatre pretty much seven days a week was not very good as an early 20s something girl in London in terms of my love life. So I got on some online kind of dating sites and tried to do less shows a week.
I. I got a more experienced job where I only had to work four nights and started kind of living the kind of single girl London life, going on dates.
But then it was actually seeing Tom’s picture in a Facebook post group which led me to get in touch with him on a whim just because, well, quite frankly, I fancied him in terms of the photography. I was a keen amateur. And then I met Tom, who was a professional photographer and graphic designer at the time.
And he kind of took me under his wing as we started dating. And I Guess the rest is history. Two years in, we set up our photography photography business.
That was in January 2009 and here we are still going and married later, nearly 17 years later.
Becca
00:05:16.300 – 00:05:23.740
The business, I love it. So you basically found a romantic partner and a business mentor all in one and grew a successful business together.
Lina
00:05:24.220 – 00:06:28.180
Essentially, yes.
Although it was quite interesting because although he was already working as a photographer and a graphic designer, he was working for another company.
So he didn’t really have any experience of running a business himself, whereas I had been running my theatre company and so I did have some idea about running your own business. So together we, we ended up being in the right place to start this wedding photography business.
Interestingly, at the beginning he was like, oh no, I don’t do weddings, they’re not me. I do bands and, you know, all sorts of exciting things for a 20 something guy. But I’m Italian. We, we do weddings, we do them big.
I’d been a bridesmaid 10 times by my early 20s, was like, no, no, weddings are fun, you’ve got them all wrong. And it just so happened that two sets of friends got engaged at the same time and both happened to ask us, would you to consider.
You guys are into photography, so would you consider doing our photos? And yeah, the business was then born.
Becca
00:06:28.260 – 00:07:00.640
Also, I find the theatre background fascinating because I think there’s actually a lot of people in our industry that have a theater performing, creative background. Definitely.
It’s interesting, when I was in Las Vegas a few weeks ago, I went to this Mastermind D that I was invited to and we all got talking and people started talking about performing and someone said, raise your hand around this table if you’ve ever been in theater or on stage or performing. And I would say 98% of the room put their hand up. So it clearly goes hand in hand.
What do you think the theatre industry and the creativity of that has?
Lina
00:07:03.040 – 00:09:25.380
Well, on a practical level, directing a stage show and then directing through my camera actually isn’t very different. You know, I still have a scene in of me.
And although when we first started out we were, I guess we followed the trend very much in the kind of 2010s of photojournalism and documentary. And that was certainly Tom’s thing. I’ve always actually loved getting in and directing a scene a little bit more.
It helps my composition all the time because I always say it’s so true that all the world’s a stage. It’s just that I went from, you know, big stages with people on them to Kind of looking at the kind of proscenium arch through my lens.
And I think that creativity fits really well in the wedding industry, especially now, because we’ve come a long way from weddings, you know, our parents weddings in the 70s, which were a ceremony followed by a few family formals outside the church and then off for tea and cake somewhere. Weddings themselves are so creative now.
And I think if you are a wedding professional and you have that creative streak in you, then absolutely, it’s a great outlet for that creativity.
And couples nowadays want, I think they feed off a supplier’s creativity and you know, so wherever you are in the industry, I think if you naturally are a creative person, it’s a really good outlet. And hey, the theater industry is a fickle beast. Okay.
It’s very hard to have a long term career in theater, but I think if you have that theatricality, if you have that creativity within you, actually the wedding industry is wonderful for feeding that. So. Especially now, especially now. And I think you have to be a person who can put themselves out there these days too.
You know, when you think about the power of networking, you know, you, you almost need to be able to kind of arrive in a room and be comfortable with talking to everyone and, and that really helps, I think, I think is, you know, really underrated in our industry. So, yeah, it never surprises me when I chat to someone and they’re like, oh, I worked in theatre too, you know.
Becca
00:09:25.460 – 00:09:59.560
Yeah, absolutely.
There are so many of us secret performers or work people who work in theater or TV or radio who’ve ended up creating these wonderful shows which are people’s wedding days together and bringing that creativity and bringing those lessons into our businesses.
Now let’s go back again to those first weddings because there will be people listening here who haven’t had a decade of photographing weddings and they’re just starting out in their wedding businesses.
When you go back to those first times, do you remember how you got most of your first clients and were there any mistakes you remember making as a newer photographer? Yeah.
Lina
00:09:59.560 – 00:16:20.760
Do you know, I think what really helped us is I approached our new fledgling business like it was a production, like I was producing a production. So as I mentioned, almost.
It’s funny because we, I guess we kind of manifested it just as we were having those conversations about, shall we think about doing weddings? Within a month, we’d had two sets of friends get engaged and ask us if we would do the wedding, if it was something that we would do.
So I think what I see people not do when they are starting a business, starting a new venture is. They don’t speak about it with confidence. We quite happily, and I say we, it was probably more me happy to tell anyone.
We are starting a photography business. We want to get out there and we want to be professional photographers full time. So immediately it was a consideration for our friends.
As soon as they got engaged, they thought of us first. They both said that. So not being shy about the venture that you want to go for, being proud that want to go for it and telling people.
And then the second thing that we did was I was quite adamant that we would not start off almost being ashamed of our inexperience, because although we hadn’t shot that many weddings together, Tom had been a photographer pretty much since he was 14 years old. You know, he’d taken thousands and thousands of beautiful images already.
I already had had a career of sorts the last five, six years as a theatre director and then as a keen amateur, I was confident we took great photos.
And so when it came to our third, fourth, fifth job, which were all in the same year as those first two, which essentially we did as wedding presents, we priced them properly.
Now, of course, we weren’t charging the same as photographers who’d been going 10, 15 years, but we didn’t go in almost kind of with like a, oh, please give me a bit of money for this job. So our third, fourth, fifth weddings, we charged by the hour, but it was a decent rate.
We made sure we had a really slick website from the start showcasing images. And then by the time we went into the following year, I doubled our rates. So our sixth, seventh wedding were double the cost of the third one.
And that was something we did from the start. We weren’t going to.
We were going to be confident in our talent and I would love to see more people do that, yes, by all means, do things for free to start off with, to gain certain experience, but if you know your talent and if people are in want you, they have chosen you, don’t then kind of shrink on actually being paid, you know, for the job you want to do. So that was a key thing we did from the start.
I’d say if we made any mistakes in the first few years, it was taking everything and everything that came our way. But then, is it a mistake when you’re first starting out, you know, you want to find your feet, feel what, feel, you know, see what feels good.
And another thing we were also very hot on from the beginning, was being authentically us. I remember we did our first Kind of huge wedding fair.
You know, back, back in the 2010s used to get these huge kind of one or two day wedding fairs at National Trust home. And I remember we signed up for one. I think we’d been going about five years and it was our first major investment into a wedding show.
It was two days we had, I think it was a two by two kind of square exhibition space that we had to fill. And this is where the theatricality came in because I designed us a set, so I think it was 2015 or 2016.
I designed us the set of a living room and instead of having a table just with all our albums on, we bought an old fireplace around we and then lit it to look like a fire. We bought a chaise long and we invited couples into our space as if they were sat in a lovely cosy living room to look at our wedding albums.
We were completely different to anyone else at that show. And we all know this shows a fool’s filled with photographers these days.
And I think we took, I think it was about 12 bookings just from that weekend.
So we learned early on that being yourself and not necessarily just wanting to blend in with everyone was a great way of kind of attracting your tribe, I guess.
And so from the early days, we always felt like we had the clients that we really resonated with because we didn’t try to fit in to this very pastel wedding industry. We were always, well, this is who we are.
And I’ll never forget at that show, a photographer came up to our stand, he looked at our kind of brochure, we’d never met him before. And he said to us he was significantly older than us and he said, you shoot all night. And that’s always been our thing. We never hold ours.
If you’ve got us, you’ve got us. And we love shooting throughout the party. We’re usually there to the very end. And he looked and he said, you shoot all night. And we were like, yeah.
And he was like, huh. And I remember he tutted, huh, first dance and I’m out of there. And on that moment we said to ourselves, we never want to be that.
I’m out of there, first dance and I’m out there. And that really sat with us as another guidance. So, you know, I’m sure there are mistakes I’m forgetting that we made.
But actually my memories from the early days are the things we stuck to. And even when we thought, oh no, we’re so different, actually they came out for the best.
Becca
00:16:20.920 – 00:18:09.280
And the Best way to stand out in any market is to be different and to be authentic to you. And I see so many people who I, I like to call them vanilla because they just look the same as everyone else.
Their website looks the same as everyone else. And so when people choosing between vanilla, vanilla and vanilla is boring.
But when there’s some unicorn ice cream flavor instead of vanilla, it’s a lot more appealing to the people who like it. And we know that you’re not appealing to everyone. None of us can service everyone.
But actually when we stand for something and we’re authentically ourselves, not only does that see us through the long term because we can’t pretend to be something we’re not for a decade. That would be ridiculous. But also, like you said, it attracts our tribe.
The other thing I think that’s really interesting from what you said is, is around the confidence and the self belief. And I again, I see this holding back people so often that they don’t feel they’re good enough.
And I actually have a quote that I used in a recent presentation on stage that my daughter said to me when she was trialing for Arsenal, she was eight years old, she said to me, well, if I don’t believe I’m good enough, why would they? And that’s really resonated with me and I’m like out of the mouths of children.
And so I put that on stage when I spoke and I said, if you do not believe you’re good enough, why will they? So why should you get a couple to book you for their wedding if you don’t even believe you’re product’s good enough?
And deep down people do believe their product’s good enough. But for some reason this Britishness in us says, oh, we’ve got to pretend that we don’t believe that.
And actually all that does is puts people off and also makes us not value ourselves properly. And that’s why we then end up being too cheap or not achieving the things we want to achieve.
And so I think the fact that you went in from day one with that self belief, knowing you had a good product, knowing that you knew what you were talking to, of course we can all get better all of the time and we’re always going to improve. But you believed in it and therefore your friends believed it and the couples believed in it.
Lina
00:18:09.280 – 00:19:30.700
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, for years, Tom and I, we, we still now, in fact we were at one last month, we still go to photography conferences to learn from other people, you know, so nearly 17 years later we’re not like, oh yeah, we’re amazing now. We’re still constantly learning because I think as a creative you need to keep being inspired.
Having your brain kind of of tested and influenced and you know, just making yourself think often is what makes you a great creative. So we are still even now doing things, but we have had a really strong self belief since the early days.
I think that has a lot to do with why we’re still going and the ability to move with the industry. So two years ago we introduced film into our business.
So we’re actually now lean on Tom photography and film because we went out there and said, well, where’s the industry going now? You know, actually moving image is important. So let’s make sure we can film, let’s go out and learn how to film.
And so now we can give couples photo and film and we do both. So constantly thinking, well where can I learn more next? What are my couples going to want?
That has, has been something that I think is really important for longevity too.
Becca
00:19:31.250 – 00:20:19.110
Yeah, 100%.
Now your self belief and your confidence actually feeds into what I alluded to earlier when I said that you said something on stage a number of years ago that I still think about today. And you probably won’t even remember saying this, but I remember it really clear and I still talk to clients about it.
You said that when you booked your year, you never wanted to be fully booked. You always liked to keep a little bit of space for something epic and unexpected to come in.
And I still think about that now because I thought the confidence that it took to say that, number one is a lot to say. Yeah, I’m not going to book up all my dates because something unexpected and epic might come in.
But also the fact that actually by leaving space you did end up getting to do some pretty cool things. So just, I mean, I may be remembering it wrong, it was a long time ago, but just talk to me around that because it has stayed in my mind.
Lina
00:20:19.110 – 00:23:47.620
Yeah, I mean I’m a firm believer in, you know, you can only shoot what you then show. So if you fill your diary with weddings that don’t excite you, venues maybe that don’t excite you, then that’s all you’re ever going to book.
So if you have a dream, whether it’s a style of wedding or whether it’s working with a certain client, you need to go out and get those clients. Right.
But the transition, a lot of the time between what you’re currently doing and getting out what it is that you want to do sometimes that’s tricky. Right.
So if you completely book up your diary with just every inquiry you get, every couple that wants to book you, you’re not going to leave any room for movement, creativity. So we’ve always been quite keen on, well, is that, you know, an inquiry comes in, great, is that where we want to go?
Is that going to do anything for us? Do I want to shoot that venue? How was that experience last time? And we’re constantly asking questions of how we want to fill our diary.
Now, now, don’t mistake this for arrogance. You know, it’s more a case of, well, if I’m not going to necessarily enjoy that wedding, am I going to then take it anyway?
Which a isn’t fair on the couple because they deserve someone who is really going to be all in. But also, how am I going to feel when that inquiry comes in from that epic destination or that, that venue we’ve wanted to shoot up for so long?
And I know I’ve got that in the diary, which I possibly be accepted begrudgingly.
So I think it’s about being true to what you want to do, where your business is going to go and have courage, have the courage to leave space for growth, have courage to say no. And I know this is something that comes up quite a lot and a lot of people talk about it.
You know, I, I Spoke in Creation 2018 at Photographs Conference and I still have people quote back to me. The fact that I on that stage said, if you never say no, what is your yes really worth?
You know, if you take everything offered to you, you, you know, what does getting you really mean?
We have always said we would rather someone say, oh, you know, I wanted Lena and Tom but I couldn’t have them or I couldn’t afford them or I, they wouldn’t, you know, in a way that is still pr. And like I said, don’t, don’t misread me for arrogance.
I just feel that every couple deserves all in suppliers and if you are not all in on their vision for their wedding, it’s also the best thing for them that you let them go or you pass them on to a fellow supplier who, you know, really wants to shoot that venue or go to that destination or loves that style. So I think again, it all comes down to color, courage, courage to say, I’m not sorry, that one isn’t for me.
Or, you know, actually we’re gonna say we’re not available when actually we are because I just don’t necessarily want to Fill the diary with that. With that wedding.
It’s a huge privilege, what we do, you know, if we can’t give a hundred percent and be all in and be as excited for our couples and their day, we don’t deserve to be there. That’s always how I felt about it.
Becca
00:23:47.770 – 00:23:48.010
It.
Lina
00:23:48.330 – 00:24:06.010
So I would much rather be like, this one isn’t for us, so. And move on. But it takes courage, and I. I always understand that.
And when I coach kind of maybe people that haven’t been in the business quite so long, that’s. I think that’s the stickler. The courage. The courage, yeah.
Becca
00:24:06.010 – 00:24:08.690
Courage, yeah. Again, bit like mindset, shifting.
Lina
00:24:08.690 – 00:24:09.010
It’s.
Becca
00:24:09.010 – 00:25:04.770
It’s huge. And even when you’re talking, it doesn’t come across as arrogance to me in any way, shape, or form. That’s why it stayed with me all of these years.
And actually, what it does show me is that you care about the clients you work with and you care about not being like the guy you met at that wedding fair who was tutting and saying you wanted to be out of there. I’ve learned that for myself.
The moment you start begrudging something or disliking something or thinking, oh, I’ve got to go on a call with them, or, oh, I’ve got to work with them, then that’s the time to cut it out.
Because it’s not fair on yourself and your time, which is precious, but it’s also absolutely not fair on them and not fair on the opportunity that could come down. Down the line, which you would be a better fit for and you can serve. What do you say to people, though, who are feeling desperate?
Because I see this, where people get into this desperate headspace. They just want anything. They haven’t got much coming in.
They’ve kind of got into this downward desperation spiral where they feel like they just have to take everything they can get. Any thoughts there?
Lina
00:25:04.770 – 00:28:34.210
Yeah, I do see that. And, you know, we all have bills to pay, right? So you should never feel guilty for feeling that desperation. But I also think we.
We have a duty to the couple. You know, there are thousands and thousands of people out there shooting weddings, filming them, doing the florals. Okay.
A couple deserves people with passion. So what I say to people is, if. If you’re not getting the weddings you want, where’s your other income? Streak dreams?
I would much rather see people work on their business in terms of what they want to do with it and be dedicated to it, but not put all their eggs in one basket. If you are so desperate you are having to take any wedding that comes your way.
Try not to think about, you know, I must earn everything I can from my wedding. There is no shame in going off and getting a part time job in a quiet period.
You know, coming back to the theater industry, you know, you go for a meal in London and you will be undoubtedly served by an actor in between jobs, there’s no shame there.
In the acting industry everyone accepts that if you’re in between jobs, you go and get a job somewhere else so you can go and pay your rent and you can then be flexible to auditions.
So why can we not do that here as entrepreneurs in the wedding industry, if you can’t give yourself a hundred percent to the wedd that are coming your way because you don’t love them, maybe think about what else can come in terms of an income rather than I have to take everything I’m given.
Because of course if those weddings aren’t reflecting the kind of weddings you want, you’re just going to fill your portfolio with more of what you don’t want and you’re going to end up in this spiral of being trapped, not doing the things that you want that your creative soul wants you to do do. So I always say to people, try not to put all your eggs in the wedding basket.
Let’s just step back and think, okay, weddings right now are not bringing you what they want financially.
So let’s do twofold, let’s work on your business, why it’s not bringing what you want, how we can, you know, maybe it’s, you need to do some shoots, go out and do some shoots in a different way so you have a different portfolio. Maybe you need to work with some other professionals, get some more. So that’s one side of it.
Let’s work on why you’re not getting what you want to get.
And then on the other side, where can you bring in non wedding money to pay your bills and take a step off, you know, not put so much pressure on your wedding business. Because let’s face it, working in weddings should be a joyful experience.
You know, we, we get to, we get to be with people in the these milestone life events. You know, it’s incredible. You see the best of the human experience right in front of your eyes.
So maybe it’s about not then getting to the point where you’re in desperation because your business is not bringing you what you want it to take pressure off that business by bringing in an income somewhere else, giving you a bit of breathing space to Work on what it is you want to bring into your business.
Becca
00:28:34.450 – 00:29:35.240
I think that’s really powerful and I think there’ll be people listening who that’s really resonated with.
And I think the shame piece as well is something really to just take a moment on because I do think people feel this sense of shame and actually it comes right back to what we were talking about, confidence and mindset.
Because as you take that mindset shift and go, you know, the reason I work part time is because I only want to work with couples who are incredible and I’m taking less business. So there’s no shame in the fact that you’re working on another part time job. You’re actually using that to your advantage.
It’s the same with my children, right.
So I often say, you know, I only work school hours, hours and no, I can’t take on that project outside of those hours because the time with my children is important to me. That’s not something to be ashamed of or embarrassed of.
That’s something I’ve chosen in my business which frees me up and allows me to only work on projects I’m passionate about. Because if I’ve got to sacrifice that time with my kids, then I want to say no.
And so again, I think taking that feeling of shame away and reframing it and realizing actually you’re going to do a better job if you make some of these choices rather than feel like.
Lina
00:29:35.320 – 00:31:03.930
You’Ve got to be embarrassed about it, it 100%, 100%. There’s no, no shame, no embarrassment.
You know, and, and often if we take a step back from our wedding businesses and not put so much pressure on them, we can get the joy back.
So I think, because if you think about it, so many people enter this industry from either a hobby or a passion and then all of a sudden it becomes your income and then it gets real serious and we can lose the love of it.
You know, I, you know, I’ve had peaks and troughs in, in the past with the photography where I’ve gone, you know what, I just don’t want to take another picture for a few days or you know, I’ve lost the creativity and then I’ll stop for a bit, you know, and then go out and do something like just take pictures on a day out or something and rekindle why I love photography, why I love human. Because my, my work is definitely rooted in my love for humans and the human things they do and this, the absolute range of emotion that we have.
So going back And, And. Or people watching on a, I don’t know, a windy coastal walk, you know, and then that brings me back to it.
But I think when we make something a business, all of a sudden we put this huge pressure on it, if it is our only income. So step back, you know, and. And kind of have another look.
Becca
00:31:03.930 – 00:31:32.740
Yeah, I love that. I think that’s so, so helpful. Now, you’ve been in the industry a long time.
I’ve been around the industry for a long time, and the industry has shifted over that time in all sorts of different ways. What are some of the things you’ve seen shifting over the last few years? I mean, even.
I think back to when we first met and I was running a Facebook workshop, which would. No one would sign up to anymore.
So what have you seen in terms of your business, in terms of the market, in terms of customers, where attitudes changes, Shifts have happened.
Lina
00:31:32.900 – 00:35:23.410
Yeah, there’s definitely been shifts, without a doubt.
I think we’ve seen a shift certainly in the photography world from a real kind of focus on photojournalism and documentary as like the key trend of the 2010s through to a much more editorial style now, a much more posed style. Don’t be wrong. The documentary couples are still out there, but there’s definitely been a shift.
I think Instagram coming in made visuals a lot more front and center, and therefore we found ourselves very much led by trends in the industry. And I see people get themselves really kind of caught up over trends, you know, and we’ve done it too. Ah, should our work look like this now?
Should it look like. Like this? But we always end up then coming back to, well, you know, this is us and we want to be authentically us. So there will be someone out there.
And I do believe there is a couple for every. Every trend, every style. So that’s kind of been the big one. Definitely shifts in the way we market.
You know, back in the day we would have a, you know, take, maybe do submit a. A wedding to a magazine which would then have a shoot. So not a sh. An advert to go alongside it. You know, you have magazines do that.
Or we’ll feature this wedding. If you also have an advert. I can’t remember the last print advertising we did.
It’s been a long old time, but now there’s this big shift on social media as a marketing tool. So that has really changed the way we market our business and that kind of focus. And of course, we’ve come through another generation now.
Ten years ago, all our Clients were, were, you know, tail end Gen X millennials and now we’ve got millennials and older Gen Z coming through and they are different people. So having to kind of shift and adapt to the way things are done. But I think that’s a key part of running a business, as I said earlier.
And I think you have to acknowledge the shifts in your industry, the way it’s marketed, the way people react. I think the way one slight downer I think on, on the way things have changed is the whole, the whole sort of ghosting thing.
Up until last year I don’t think we’d ever been kind of ghosted on a court like on a call. Whereas now we’ve had calls with couples and then never, they’ve never answered.
Our follow up, which I actually think is still, regardless of generation, I think is really rude because you’ve taken an hour out or whatever of someone’s time. But unfortunately that is becoming more normal.
I hear more and more particularly photographers in groups say I had a call a week ago and they’ve just not. And they’re not answering my follow ups, which I think is a real shame.
You know, I’ve got quite used to sending brochures and occasionally not hearing anything. I think that’s been the case for, for years and years because I think people shop around more now. I think there’s a lot of choice.
So I think people, you know, will email a lot more rather than just connect to maybe one supplier they’ve seen.
But I think this new, almost kind of the new norm of even if someone has a conversation consultation with you, if they then decide that you’re not the person for them, not then messaging, say thanks, but we’re gone in another way. I’m seeing so much more of that throughout the industry and I think that’s a real thing. Shame, a real shame.
Again, we all just, can we all just be a bit more human about it, please?
Becca
00:35:23.970 – 00:37:09.090
I was about to say I feel like it’s your love of humanness that struggles particularly with that as well. Because when you are someone that wants to connect with people and people are not giving you that back, that’s really difficult.
And again, I think it’s so hard for us because we come at it and we’re like, but why, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that?
And we can get to a point where we then become bitter and start complaining about it and it’s just a fact of life we have to deal with, deal with. But what’s interesting, I think from the other side, I think it comes back to that shame piece.
I actually think sometimes it’s the couples not trying to be rude is they’re ashamed or embarrassed to say no, or they don’t want to hurt your feelings or they don’t want to say the wrong thing. And so what they do, which I’m not saying is right, is they just disappear because they don’t want to have those difficult conversations.
And I think sometimes we’re like, oh, they just can’t be bothered, they’re rude, they don’t want to.
But actually I think they, there’s this other kind of weird humanist where they haven’t had to have many human conversations because everything is done on Amazon in one click and you can just cancel something without having a conversation that you have. They have this kind of innate fear of saying actually no.
And so from our perspective, it’s thinking about, well, how can we make that easier for them? How can we give them an easy out so that we hear an out without them having to have that conversation? But you’re right, it’s definitely shifting.
I think the personal human touch is getting harder and harder for, for us to keep in our businesses and to achieve. But it’s interesting to see how it shifts. And I think we have to keep evolving. We have to keep thinking differently.
And that’s why keeping going to conferences, keeping going and reading books and listening to podcasts and doing the work to hear about this stuff keeps us fresh and stops us from becoming the bitter people that look back and go, well, in my day everyone replies to an email and now they don’t.
Lina
00:37:09.640 – 00:38:05.790
Yeah. And I, and I think that’s it. I think the key to not getting bitter, although it’s, you know, it’s a real shame, is to just let it, just let it go.
It’s like, well, you know, you, I, you know, we had this call and we, we got on lovely. And if, if you don’t then take the time to say to a soul, no, sorry, well, that is that.
And you just have to move on because like you said, you don’t want to end up becoming bitter. It does seem to be a shift in the way things are done, but it is hard for us because we always have been a very sort of person centered business.
We have always done a consultation. We have never ever taken a wedding booking based on an email alone.
And because we, we don’t like that, we want to know who we’re committing to, potentially get to know over the last, over the next year, 18 months in some cases. So, you know, we, we’ve always wanted that but you know, maybe it’s us, maybe we’re too human now. Maybe we need to get a bit more kind of A.I.
Becca
00:38:06.980 – 00:39:03.050
No, absolutely not. You need to continue being authentically you. And like I say, if someone doesn’t want that, then they’re not the right people for you anyway.
And so we’ve just got to let them go into the distance but also realize, and this is where I see a lot of people struggling. It’s not personal because then we can self reflect and we can go, is it something I said? Did, did they not like me?
And so we then end up in this downward spiral and actually it’s not that deep.
And often it’s, I say, well, some days you go to Starbucks and some days you go to Costa and if I asked you why, you wouldn’t have, have a particularly good reason. It doesn’t mean you don’t like one or the other. You just happen to choose that, that day.
And sometimes it’s like that when people are choosing their suppliers, there isn’t this deep rooted reason that they haven’t gone with you. Maybe someone else just emailed them quicker, maybe they just had a vibe from someone else. You know, you don’t know what the reason is.
Maybe it happened that they were related to the other photographer deep down the light. Like there’s so many reasons. If we spend too long self reflecting we will just destroy us ourselves.
Lina
00:39:03.050 – 00:39:24.730
I, and I completely agree.
I’ve had a lot of conversations where people have said, you know, and for our own, because of course as creatives we’re very heart centered people and it’s easy to be like, oh, I thought we got on really well. And you know, a lesson we’re learning as well is just go, right, fine, okay, wasn’t meant to be. We move on.
And not, like you said, take it to heart too much.
Becca
00:39:24.730 – 00:39:38.320
Yeah, not, not, it’s not so deep as we sometimes think it is. And actually if we had that conversation with them, we’d probably realize, oh, okay.
Actually, actually they, it just wasn’t right, it wasn’t the right fit. So let’s move on. In terms of your. Oh, sorry, yeah, go for it.
Lina
00:39:38.320 – 00:40:00.930
And I was just going to say that we have, I can think of at least three occasions where we didn’t get a booking thinking it was in the bag, thinking we’d gotten really well, then the client had gone in a different direction. But then what came in afterwards was like, ah, so we trust, trust in the, the Divine nature of things and things working out as they should. Should.
Becca
00:40:01.170 – 00:40:32.190
Yeah, absolutely.
I definitely believe everything happens for a reason and sometimes you need to say no to something for a door to open somewhere else for sure as well. So, yeah, again, it all comes back to these mindset shifts. So what is working for you in 2025, 2026 with your photography?
I think people are interested to know what actually works for people because we hear online, you know, all of these get rich quick nonsense and go on here, go on, TikTok, go on here. What for you right now is practically working in your business. Where are your leads coming from for photography?
Lina
00:40:32.270 – 00:43:17.900
So the majority of our leads come from word of mouth, recommendation and we have put a lot of effort in the last few years over network onto networking.
We really enjoy networking and as we’ve moved kind of up more into the sort of luxury sphere, we found networking with planners in particularly has helped bring in a whole new set of clients and build some really lovely relationships which we’re really valuing. So we still get quite a lot of inquiries from people who have seen us at a wedding.
Tom and I have a, you know, really great relationship where, you know, we’re best friends, partners in every way and we don’t hide that away wedding. You know, people will see us together, working together, doing different things and we find that a lot of people are quite drawn to that.
They like the idea of having a couple at their wedding. So again, coming back to authenticity in this world of, you know, everyone can have a camera these days.
Staying true to who we are as people is definitely still working for us, us and then, yeah, networking, being in the room with the conversations, getting to know people, getting to know other vendors, other planners, people in the industry. That is predominantly where things are coming from. It’s easy to think the be all and end all these days is, is being on Instagram, etc.
We get hardly anything from Instagram. Our clients, I think they’re on Instagram, but they’re, they’re not, you know, they’re not like constantly on it.
That might shift over the years, but at the moment it’s still very much about word of mouth and connection, which is lovely. I mean, when we get an inquiry that says, I was at so and so’s wedding and we thought, you, you seem great to work with.
That is the biggest, biggest compliment. Because they’ve watched us at work and thought, yeah, they seem good, they seem cool or they seem fun, you know, because we are fun.
We do try to have fun, you know, we love Having fun with our, with our clients.
And, you know, particularly in a thread of the luxury industry, I know there’s a slight, there’s a slight kind of angle where some people think, you know, getting to know your clients, well, socializing with them is unprofessional. And we just sort of say, well, we’re unprofessional then. Because I adore getting to know my clients and seeing them socially before the wedding.
So that on the wedding day we’re just Leena and Tom to them. It’s not like, oh, photographer’s turned up, must behave or whatever.
And it’s how we get the access that we get to, to then provide, you know, get the coverage that we get.
Becca
00:43:17.900 – 00:44:33.630
So, yeah, and if you didn’t do that, you wouldn’t be being authentically yourselves. Once again, you would be leaning into what someone else’s definition of, of working with luxury is, which isn’t actually who you are.
And who you are and what you do is what makes you guys great and what makes you stand out. And I think for anyone listening, word of mouth never goes out of fashion.
It is the one thing you should, you should absolutely have on your to do list for next year as a focus.
Because in this noisy, wild marketing theme park world that I’ve been talking about a lot recently, where there’s people shouting at us from every single angle that they are the best, the thing that’s going to cut through that noise is a personal recommendation every single time. Because there’s too much noise, there’s too much overwhelm and there’s too much choice.
But if your friend says, you’ve absolutely got to do this, this is the best person ever, then they’re much more likely to listen to that than any of the noise.
So get it on your to do list for next year, have it as a big focus, get out there, market, network, talk to people, build relationships, keep on with the good customer service because it absolutely never goes out of fashion. Right. Before I let you go, Lena, I do want to talk to you a little bit about the other side of your business.
As I mentioned in the introduction, you did launch Lena Della Luna in 2021. Talk to me about how that happened, why that happened, and where that sits in alignment alongside your photography.
Lina
00:44:33.870 – 00:49:09.130
So I launched in 2021 after a couple of years of burnout. You know, I have always been an all in kind of person. I am the child of Italian immigrant parents.
I grew up seeing my parents work all hours, work, work, work, work, work. And it was instilled in me that if you wanted to be successful, you worked hard. And I took that to heart.
So in kind of a few years leading up to Covid, I was working crazy, crazy hours on our business management, on our marketing, on just, you know, really constantly working. We used to do high volume in terms of weddings. We used to do 45, 50 a year, which now makes me swallow really hard at the thought of that many.
Largely because we would meet lovely, lovely people, you know, wedding fairs, and be like, I want to shoot your wedding. And then all of a sudden we’d be like, oh, that’s 49 now. But it. I couldn’t sustain it.
And I spent a lot of 2019 in high, like high functioning anxiety, you know, I was really burnt out.
And Covid kind of came, you know, and obviously it was hideous for lots of us, but in a strange way, it gave me the pause, like an enforced pause that I needed. And I started to work on myself properly now that I had a pause, you know, in the noise, in the. The noise was gone.
And in the quiet, I had all of this insight into where I was kind of going wrong, really.
So through mindset changes, through cyclical alignment, which I’m very, very keen on, showing people how to reconnect to the cyclical nature of the seasons and to our own sense of circadian rhythm, I was able to reset my nervous system. And within a year I felt really good, found a stronger sense of spirituality.
And I thought, I have got to help other people because I know it’s not just me.
So in 2021, I launched Lina del Luna, which came to me in a meditation, the means Lena of the moon, because I work with the cycles of the moon very closely. And I started to offer holistic business coaching. And so most of my clients are actually people in the wedding industry.
There’s a beautiful symmetry now who are also finding themselves close to burnout and realize they need to reset themselves. So that gives me an extra joy, joy to kind of help guide other.
Like I said, it’s not exclusive, but it has become lots of other wedding professionals to really show them that they can have a very holistic approach to their business. They don’t have to be constantly chasing their tail.
And the beauty of the wedding industry is it fits really nicely with a kind of cyclical, seasonal way of life. You know, gone are the days that weddings were between May and September.
They’re all year round now, but they do tend to die off more in the quieter months. So allowing ourselves to move with the seasons so in spring, you know, we get fired up again for the year ahead.
We might want to set goals, we might want to really look at what we want to be achieving throughout the year. And then the summer is like go, go, go time. We’re at our busiest, we’re out there in the sun and the heady days of summer.
And then as we get to autumn, we all start to pull back a little bit. And they say that our intuition is strongest in the autumn. So just letting a little bit of the noise die down and listening in.
Well, actually, how has this year been for me?
What do I need to start considering and then having the courage to really pull back in winter because we are supposed to be much less on it in winter. So I realized that this, there was so much power in this kind of living and a mindset shift that I just started starting coaching people through it.
And yeah, it’s amazing to see, you know, how it’s stopped, you know, people when they were heading towards burnout and it gives me a great deal of joy.
Becca
00:49:09.210 – 00:49:14.700
And so you’re doing that sitting alongside the photography as well. So it kind of comes in, ebbs and flows in between.
Lina
00:49:15.500 – 00:49:29.700
Yeah, yeah. And it actually sits quite nicely. You know, I’m not finding that it conflicts at all really.
So I’m able to work around kind of the two, the two businesses.
Becca
00:49:29.700 – 00:49:48.990
So it’s great and brings you joy in different ways. Now you talk as well when you.
I was looking at your website for Lena Deluna and you talk about this idea of helping people become a soul led business. So that’s a different kind of concept, I guess for a lot of people. What do you mean by being a soul led business?
What does that look like in practice?
Lina
00:49:48.990 – 00:52:24.010
In theory it’s about authenticity and it’s putting what’s in your heart first in your business. So being less about what I’m expected to be and being more about what I want to be.
So it comes back to that authenticity, but it also means solid in terms of terms of who you’re working with. What does their soul want to do?
You know, are they being led where they think that they, what they are doing is what they think they should be doing or is, is something else in their heart. So it’s about, again, I’ve talked a lot about kind of humanity, you know, being human so far.
And it is about going back to, to that because we are all souls leading a human experience, living a human experience experience. So what we really care about is in our soul. So I run my business Very much from my soul. Okay. You get the best of me from my soul.
And if that doesn’t fit with your soul, that’s fine. But hey, you know, a lot of the time, if we’re connecting, it’s a beautiful thing.
And then I, you know, so that then informs how I work with my clients. I get to know what really makes them tick, what, what their passions are, what makes their heart sing.
And so when I say so led, it’s very much about that part of us, what’s deep inside that makes us happy. Because so often now we end up on a path that we think we should be on, but it maybe doesn’t resonate with us truly.
So I guess we’re coming back to authenticity. We’re coming back to that inner kind of creativity. And we are happiest when we are leading from our heart, from our soul.
So just trying to encourage people to come at their business from that place rather than a place of where they think they should be. And you know, the term holistic means mind, body and soul.
So when I work with my clients, it’s like, okay, so this is what you want to do in your business. How’s it going to nurture your soul if you do it that way? How is it going to be in your mind, in your mindset if you do it that way?
Way, you know, if we make this decision, is there a toll on your body? Can you work that wedding? If it means three back to back 18 hour days, yeah.
So ticking mind, body, soul, in every decision in your business is what I truly believe is kind of the key to not ending up either feeling unfulfilled or worse led to burnout.
Becca
00:52:24.010 – 00:53:10.220
Yeah, really interesting. And so often I see people making decisions based on what other people would think or what other people do.
And actually I often say, you know, everyone’s situation is so unique, it’s impossible to say there’s a one size fits all. Because what works for you won’t work for me. What brings me joy won’t bring you joy. You know, all of our lives are different.
And actually peeling back some of those layers and doing a bit of self reflection and thinking, what does bring me joy? Which parts of my business, which parts of my life do I want to be leaning into more and which parts am I just doing?
Because I think I should be, is an incredibly important exercise.
And I hope something that those of you that are listening will take note of and start to think a little bit more deeply, take some time for reflection and think, okay, am I running A solo business. Am I thinking these things through or am I just doing what everyone else thinks?
Lina
00:53:10.300 – 00:54:41.450
And one of the most interesting things I find when I start working with people is people outsource their intuition all the time.
They, they will listen to their friend, their mum, their, you know that, that person that got up on stage at the last conference, they went and think, oh, yeah, maybe that is. Or that magazine article that they read and they ignore the loud, what should be quite loud, deafening noise from their own intuition.
Because I, I say your intuition is the best personal development coach you will ever, ever have. You know, never mind hiring coaches and mentors, if you can reconnect with your intuition and trust it. And that is the key.
Most people have literally forgotten how to trust their intuition. They will get an inkling in their gut and then they’re led in other directions.
So a big part of my work when I start working with people is like, right, how do we go back to trusting your intuition? Because your intuition is there to work for you. It’s never going to let you down if you trust it and if you can follow it.
So, you know, I, I don’t make any decision now unless my intuition is going, yep, great big, great fat, big tick, let’s do it. But so many people don’t trust their own intuition, which is crazy. So big part of my work is that.
And the good news is, is you can quite easily retrain your intuition to be louder for you, but you have to then do a little bit of work around there. But, but it’s fully doable. But I, I find it crazy how many people don’t trust their own intuition.
Becca
00:54:41.690 – 00:54:56.910
Yes. So, so true. Leena, this has been such a fantastic conversation.
I’ve loved chatting with you, catching up with you, hearing all about the work that you’re doing.
If people want to find out more about you, about your photography, about your content, coaching, where are the best places for them to connect with you?
Lina
00:54:56.990 – 00:55:38.810
Yeah. So for the, for the photography and film work with Tom, we are www.lenaandtom.com. lena is with an I because I’m Italian, so it’s the Italian vowels.
And a n-dot com. We’re also at lenaandtom on all of the socials, so you’ll find us there basically on Instagram. That’s the one we’re on the most.
And then as Lena Della luna, it is lenadellaluna.com and I, I again, I as Lena Della Luna. Della is D, E, L, L, A. Because it’s. Again, it’s the Italian at Lena Della Luna on pretty much on most of the socials as well.
So, yeah, so that’s where I am.
Becca
00:55:38.890 – 00:55:51.610
Fantastic. I will make sure I put all of those links in the show notes so people can find you.
And I’m sure because we’ve talked a lot about humanness and connection, you’re up for people just reaching out and saying hi if they found what you’ve had to say interesting.
Lina
00:55:51.690 – 00:55:59.350
100%. I’m always there. I would love to, you know, know people’s thoughts or open up conversation and connection. Definitely.
Becca
00:55:59.510 – 00:56:07.830
Fantastic. Leena, thank you so much for your time. I hope to see you in person somewhere very soon. And thank you so much for everything you shared today.
Lina
00:56:07.830 – 00:56:09.910
Thank you so much, Becca. It’s been brilliant.
Becca
00:56:09.910 – 00:56:33.970
What a fantastic conversation.
I really enjoyed hearing from Leena, catching up with her after so long and hearing all about how she’s shifted over her time in the industry, both personally and professionally.
And I think there’s something to be said for taking a moment to breathe, to reflect and to think through some of the things talked about today and work out. Is what you’re doing really bringing you joy or are you just listening to other people? I’ll see you next time.
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