Show notes:

Transforming wedding venues from the top. This week I am chatting all things venues, from a different perspective. I’m interviewing General Manager of Mulberry House Richard Kidner about running a team and keeping the venue current and attractive to couples. Culture starts from the top – and it’s clear that at Mulberry the team want to succeed. We also discover the role technology and automation has played in the Mulberry house sales process, and the time the team have got back as a result.

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Time stamps:

00:02 – Entrepreneurial Mindset and Business Autonomy

04:12 – The Role of a General Manager in Hospitality

14:03 – The Importance of Team Culture in Hospitality

19:27 – Marketing Review and Business Growth

27:53 – The Impact of Automation on Customer Experience

Transcript:

Richard
00:00:00.240 – 00:00:16.279
Also very entrepreneurial. You know, you are running that business.

You are, you’re looking at from the top, you know, the top sort of sales pipeline and the top line revenue all the way down to the bottom. And what’s great about this place, it’s full autonomy and I almost run it as if it’s my own. I treat it like it’s my own money.

So, yeah, you are a generalist.

Becca
00:00:16.279 – 00:01:03.960
I’m Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger and you’re listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I’m here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.

If you are an ambit wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you’re in the right place. Let’s get going with today’s episode.

Today I’m chatting with Richard Kidner, general manager of Mulberry House, an award winning wedding and events venue in the Essex countryside. Throughout his career, Richard has worked at multiple properties, giving him a breadth of knowledge of the industry as well as his venue work.

Richard also now sits alongside me on the advisory board of the newly formed UK Wedding association as the hospitality and venues advisor. Richard, welcome to the podcast.

Richard
00:01:04.120 – 00:01:05.640
Hi Becca, thanks for having me.

Becca
00:01:05.960 – 00:01:15.080
Thank you for being brave enough to come and be on an episode. I know when I asked you, you said I thought you’d never ask, but really I’m not sure you’re asking.

Richard
00:01:15.080 – 00:01:21.000
Congratulating you on your award, which I can see in the background there. And I was like, oh, when you asked me, I was very flattered. Yes, thank you very much.

Becca
00:01:21.160 – 00:01:48.740
Well, I’m thrilled you’ve come on. I think you might be the first official GM from a venue that’s been on the podcast.

I’ve had venue owners, I’ve had venue like wedding coordinators, but I don’t think I’ve had a manager.

So we’ll come back to that a little bit later, but before we get there, I always like to get to know the history of the person on the podcast so that my listeners know why they should listen to you. So take me back. How did you end up in the world of hospitality in the first place? Was it something you always wanted to do or did you fall into?

Richard
00:01:48.740 – 00:03:48.100
You know, I, I followed my, my dad, he was, he was in hotels his entire career and I was that young kid that used to go in on Christmas Day. After you’ve had Lunch and walk around the kitchens holding your dad’s hand as a 4, 5, 6 robot, if it was.

And always impressing chefs and all the buzz and the action of hospitality and. Yeah, it’s kind of in my DNA is what I. I say. My parents always a bit like, are you sure you want to go into this?

But yeah, I did hospitality management at Westminster University. I got on the Marriott International graduate scheme and I worked my way up with Marriott in 2009, I think it was.

Was when, you know, there was a sort of an economic downturn and Marriott being a big corporate companies, it is, you know, kind of structures and redundancies were made and. And I moved off, went to work for private hotel companies, went to work for the exclusive collection which was, you know, I kind of.

I found a role in a hotel that. That was near me and it looked really great but I didn’t quite know much about the group and it was actually the best. One of the best jobs I’ve had.

You know, really great company. Danny Pecorelli. Fantastic. The. The owners of exclusive and they’re there at sort of.

They do fine dining restaurants and fantastic country house hotels, but also they do amazing events, be in the mice sector or weddings. So had a fantastic six and a half years working for that company.

Moved on from there, just kind of kept in the country house hotel kind of roles really. Got my first GM role working for a group called the Vineyard Group. They’ve now rebranded as Donington Group. That was really nice.

And that was a busy sort of wedding. It was a. Yeah, I think we did about 140 weddings a year in the tithe barn and I moved. Yeah, I’ve done a few.

Then I went to a corporate property and then back to. Yeah, back to Mulberry House. I worked for Mulberry for a few years. It was almost a bit of a stopgap actually.

And then ended up coming back during COVID times. The owners kind of. It was. The second generation was coming through.

Not necessarily their background in terms of this industry and they knew they wanted to make change and they wanted to get going with it, they wanted to invest and they need somebody to run it for them and sort of lead that and spearhead it. So it was really exciting to come back here in October 2020. Yeah. So five years now.

Becca
00:03:48.240 – 00:04:11.760
You’ve been there five years and as I said at the beginning, you are known as the gm, the general manager and I actually don’t really know what that involves, so I understand what it means to be, you know, the wedding sales girl or the wedding on the day coordinator. But for people listening, they often hear, oh, I’ve got to ask my GM about that. I’ve got to ask my GM about that.

I can’t say yes without asking my gm. What does it actually mean is in.

Richard
00:04:11.760 – 00:05:15.950
The task, isn’t it? You’re, you’re the, you’re a generalist, you are, it’s, it’s, you know, is that you are, you know, you are the people kind of HRE kind of person.

You’re managing people and their, and their careers and how you can nurture them, look after them. You are thinking about health and safety and anything, you know, in terms around legislation and keeping everything and everyone safe.

Next minute you’re a marketeer and you’re looking at all the things that, you know, that work we’ve worked on together.

For example, then you’re looking at social media, then you’re looking at the operation and then you’re talking to the chef and menu planning, it’s really varied. And this venue, we’re some wedding venue but ultimately is kind of more, it is a hotel.

We don’t try and position it that way, but it runs in the terms of the departments we’ve got similar to that of a small hotel. So you, you, you wear many hats but it’s, it’s great because you’re, you’re also very entrepreneurial. You know, you are running that business.

You are, you’re looking at from the top, you know, the top sort of sales pipeline and the top line revenue all the way down to the bottom. And what’s great about this place, it’s full autonomy. And I almost run it as if it’s my own. I treat it like it’s my own money.

So yeah, you are a generalist for.

Becca
00:05:15.950 – 00:05:24.100
Sure, you’re a generalist but the buck stops with you on a lot of things because lots of people have to come back to you with ideas or do they come back to you and they’ve got a problem?

Richard
00:05:24.340 – 00:06:15.620
Both, both, you know, and really try and encourage that proactivity of people. I think sometimes in a smaller business like this, you know, you do wear many hats and I, I don’t have loads of senior managers.

I’ve got lots of people looking after certain areas, but I probably am, it’s my own. May be a bit more of a control freak, but a lot of it does come to me.

So, you know, I don’t have a sales manager who will, you know, a sales and marketing director, for example. A lot of it will. I have lots of great guys that will be proactive and working on sales activities and wedding planners, coordinators.

But ultimately it, you know, those ideas will stem with me and then I’ll push it to the, to the team. So don’t. Wrong. It’s not just me throwing the ball, people are throwing it back and that’s, that’s the important thing.

It can get quite frustrating at times if you don’t have somebody to sort of. I always say that sort of analogy, but bounce the ball with.

Becca
00:06:15.620 – 00:06:58.040
So I think one of your strengths that I’ve observed from watching you and watching how you work with your team is the fact that you are so involved in the business but also being out there as well.

So often I’ll speak at conferences and, you know, team members are sent to the conference, but they don’t actually have any authority to make any change and their manager isn’t necessarily as engaged. They’re not going to the conference themselves or going to the training, they’re just sending other people off to do it.

And then what I see is that they then go back all enthusiastic and want to make the changes, but the manager’s not bought into it and just says, no, just keep doing it how you’ve always done it.

Do you think that’s been a proactive decision on your behalf, to be actually more involved in the whole process, or is that just who you are as a person?

Richard
00:06:58.040 – 00:08:03.850
I think it’s probably who I am. I’ve always run as a GM, I’ve always run. I mean, Mulberry is 25 bedrooms, it’s a £3 million turnover property.

But, you know, as a gym, I’ve never really gone over for four and a half million, so it’s still small properties. And I think, and that’s probably how I’ve been running now for the last 10 plus years of my career. So you kind of get.

That’s how you just work and how you operate. So you need to. I think it’s all businesses, you need to have your fingers on the pulse. You need to know what’s happening.

Yesterday we had an open day wedding open day and I’m out doing tours, I’m meeting couples.

I want to listen to what they say, I want to look at their body language or their reactions to the product, be our, you know, if we’re doing refurb work or when they look at our price points and look at the team. So if you’re not there on it, then, you know, you’re not really going to be able to know what’s going on.

If you’re in a much bigger property or multiple properties, if you’re running, you know, multiple sites, it is different, you know, but I still think it’s important to sharp every now and then and keep. And keep your sort of eyes on everything. So, yeah, it’s probably just the way I might. My career has evolved.

I’m sometimes quite conscious that you think, am I really getting involved with this? Should I be getting involved with this? But, yeah, maybe it’s a few good habits and a few that I could maybe tweak.

Becca
00:08:04.220 – 00:08:31.630
I used to love that TV show Under Cover Boss. Have you ever watched that?

Especially when they go in America and the person right at the top who has all of these restaurants or cafes, whatever is underneath them, goes down and spends some time right at the bottom. And they learn so much. And I think sometimes the higher up in a company we get, we do lose touch.

And actually just going out and doing a tour, you’re going to see a huge amount of what’s going on for your team, what’s going on with the consumers compared to just being sat in an office.

Richard
00:08:31.710 – 00:09:13.860
Yeah, quite.

And I think, you know, salespeople ultimately are, you know, they want to sell and if there’s a way they can do things that might be easier or might have to mention, you know, then. Then they will and, you know, I can then go, actually, are we. Are we undercutting ourselves here? Are we a bit too cheap or.

You know, I just think if you’re not part of it, then you just don’t really. Yeah, you’ve got to feel it. And that’s hospitality to me. You know, generally it could be weddings, could be hotels, could be restaurants.

You know, you feel it. You can walk into your property within five seconds of walking in, you know what’s going on, you’ve got a vibe, you’ve got. You go.

You can feel if it’s. If it’s a good service, if the guests are happy, if the staff are on top of everything, if they’re organized, if they’re not.

And, yeah, so I think it’s part of that kind of hospitality instinct. And I think you’ve either got it or you haven’t, in my opinion.

Becca
00:09:14.820 – 00:09:26.580
Absolutely. So you’ve been in the industry a long time and you’ve been at Mulberry for the last five years.

When you reflect, particularly over the last five years at Mulberry, what are some of the lessons you’ve learned over that time and how have you seen the.

Richard
00:09:26.580 – 00:11:06.610
Industry shifting yes, it’s, it’s a funny one. We, we came, I joined the property, came back, was working in a slightly bigger sort of more corporate role before and I kind of went in quite.

But I did a few, a small stint of the property before. So I, I knew the people or some of the people. I knew the product, I knew what I wanted to do with the place before I even walked in.

So we went in quite aggressive and we were still in restrictions but we were doing, we were doing viewings, we were really going for it. So it’s been each year, it’s not year on year.

We’ve seen progression, you know, be it winning awards, be it like every year we’ve grown the business and then this year is going to be the same. So we’ve almost been like Covid slash recession proof and everyone goes, oh, we’re struggling.

When I’m like, well we’re not, we’re still growing, we’re still busy. So what have I learned, I think more than anything is when you join a small business and you go independent.

Well, one thing I have noticed is that, you know, it’s always, it’s on you. And I think I’ve been playing the same tricks maybe for the last five years.

And I think one thing I’ve noticed is, and you’ve just said it then go out to industry events, go and speak to other venues, get consultants in to give you a hand or give you another opinion. I think that’s really important.

So eventually you will run out of tricks or you might be playing the same cards and yeah, just keep yourself out there and keep fresh ideas coming in. That’s probably what I think I’ve learned is that you’ve got to change things up.

And the couples that are booking, the trends are constantly changing consumer buying habits. You know, we talk a lot about Gen Z, but you know, it’s also how people want to spend their money, the experiences.

There’s so much going on at the moment and if you don’t stay current, you’re really going to fall behind. So that’s probably the biggest thing I’ve learned since coming back working in a small firm.

Becca
00:11:06.610 – 00:11:30.340
I know it’s probably hard to blow your own trumpet and say why you’re amazing.

But I want to encourage you to do that just for a moment because there will be venues listening to this and thinking, well, I want to be recession proof. Actually we are really struggling. What’s Richard done that we’re not doing?

So what do you think it is that’s made you and the Mulberry House team survive this period and continue to grow. Are there things that you think this is why we do?

Richard
00:11:30.340 – 00:12:36.530
It’s really easy. Passion. Got a fire in your belly, you want to innovate and you’ve got to be hungry. And that’s something I think I do quite well.

You know, I’m not the smartest guy.

I’m sure there’s other salespeople out there that might do things better or whatever, but for me, you know, if you live and breathe and you’re hungry and you love it, then I think you’re going to keep going.

And that’s, you know, I’m not going to give you any sort of great business kind of textbook answers to that, but if you’ve got some fire in your belly and you do this and that, that kind of enthusiasm and passion rubs off on your team, that’s. That’s. Everyone follow suit and that’s as simple as that. Just, I care. I want it to be right.

You know, the team know if it’s sloppy, they know I want to get upset. We also have really good fun. We look after the guys and, yeah, we just keep push, push, push, like every year.

It’s just not an option to go backwards for us. You know, if we think we’re going to do less weddings or the average spends going back, it’s just not an option.

You know, we’ve been really fortunate. Our owners have put an absolute fortune into Mulberry in the last five years.

And that’s the really fun part, as well as a gm is, oh, I’m going to have half a million pounds this year to spend on the product and to innovate. And then all the couples come in and go, oh, my God, this is amazing. I love it. So it’s.

If you don’t keep pushing and we can’t keep doing the fun stuff. So, yeah, it’s hunger.

Becca
00:12:36.530 – 00:13:20.630
I also think there’s something in what you said that we need to highlight even more. And it kind of comes back to what I said earlier, is that it’s because you’re passionate and that does come through the team as well.

Because I think often what I see in venues is that the team are passionate and sometimes they’re not getting that from the people above them.

And actually, if we are in a position of leadership, if we are in a position of power, if we’re an owner, if we’re a manager, how we act and the culture that we set does determine a lot about the success of the other people. Around us. And if we’re miserable and if we’re saying nothing’s working and if we’re frustrated, that just spreads.

Or alternatively, if our team have great ideas and are great people but never have the freedom to be able to implement it, they just get disengaged and give up.

Richard
00:13:20.870 – 00:14:03.440
Totally. And, you know, we mentioned it on last week at the launch of the Wedding Association. Culture is so important in a team.

And, you know, wedding venues, a lot of us, we almost have the same sort of facility, amenity, you know, and it’s, you know, how do you stand out? And what are you buying here? You are buying the product, you are buying the wallpaper.

You might be buying a marquee or a bar, but you also find the people. And if your team aren’t passionate, so many people that come here for reviewing are like, oh, my God, we just love your team.

Like the way, you know, the way I just know you’re going to look after us, I know you can, we can trust you. And that’s also why they book.

So, yeah, I just, I think a really healthy culture with your team is, is the number one priority for any sort of leader in any business, but especially in the sort of wedding market.

Becca
00:14:03.820 – 00:15:17.049
Yeah, definitely. And also I think one core team member can bring down the whole thing as well. So I’ll give you an example.

I was at an event venue this weekend speaking at a conference, and I’ve actually just written an email to the GM to complain about a team member more so, not because I want anything in return, but to make them aware that this person will be losing the business. Because I’ve never experienced someone be so rude to me in my entire life. And they were in charge of the conferencing and events.

Now, obviously they don’t know who I am, but that shouldn’t matter. They should still treat me with the normal dignity and respect. And the line, you’ll love this, Richard. So I was there to keynote the conference.

So I wasn’t going into all the talks because I was working and doing everything at the same time. And I asked the lady, can I buy a Diet Coke?

And her response was, it’s free with the conference if you’re even part of this conference in the first place. I could not believe it. I was like, what are you doing? And yet it was a beautiful hotel, a beautiful setting, the conference facilities were amazing.

And it was another example of just how one team member who is having a bad day, negative, rude, made judgments. I don’t know what can bring the whole Thing crashing down. Because if someone said to me now, should I hold a conference there?

I’d be like, yeah, no, let’s spin.

Richard
00:15:17.049 – 00:15:49.690
It around the other way. You know, anyone has done their research on you that you’re coming in to run this event and be the speaker.

Everyone knows that Becca likes a Diet Coke. Let’s have it ready for you on arrival. Send out that email before you get in. How can you make this event better for you? The details. Right.

So, yeah, 100 agree and I think we’ve all had that and it’s managing people in the business that aren’t right is a huge challenge for sure. But I agree with you 100%.

It’s one of those things in the past I’ve done it, you know, you sort of brush it under the carpet a little bit because you’re busy. But yeah, it’s time consuming. But the situation like that, these people have to be managed for sure.

Becca
00:15:49.930 – 00:16:09.480
Yeah, absolutely. So what’s working for Mulberry right now?

I don’t know if you’ve got an overview of where your inquiries are coming from, but a lot of the time I get asked, well, you know, we’re a venue, we want more inquiries. Where should I be marketing? So for you as Mulberry, what do you think’s working best for you right now in terms of marketing?

Where do your inquiries come from on the whole?

Richard
00:16:09.480 – 00:18:23.350
Yeah, we, I think one thing that’s where, you know, we’re fortunate with. We, we are established. We’ve been in weddings for a long time. I think that makes a huge difference.

So locally we are well known and you know, we’d have thousands of thousands of people come through here. So that does help. I think a lot of people, if you’re starting from scratch or you’re a new business, you’ve got to think a little bit harder.

But we, you know, we spend a lot, lot of money on social media and sponsored ads. I think we could target it slightly better. I think that’s super important. We use a number of the directories, not all of them.

And that can really add up.

You know, one thing we’ve really over the years is spent tens of thousands with some of these directories and it’s not, we weren’t able to have anything tangible to tell us if it was actually paying off. So we’ve, we can get to that later.

But we rolled out a new CRM this year and that has given us loads of tangible information which is going to be huge for us in our decision making next year. In Terms of how much we want to spend on the directories, you know, I think good old fashioned.

There’s no, you know, wedding, whatever you want to call them, viewing days, wedding fairs, wedding shows, open house, whatever you want to call them I think is super important. I kind of call them like labeled kind of days. And I think at the moment a lot of couples like, you know, they like to label it.

We’ll do viewing seven days a week here and if we did viewings on a Saturday morning, people are just booking a private viewing. But the reality is if you just say, oh, come into our viewing morning, everyone just books in. So yeah, we’re doing a lot of that this year.

We’ve done loads more wedding shows, open houses than ever before, open evening, etc. And that’s been really, really successful.

We still, a lot of people moved away from wedding fairs and I was guilty of that and myself in previous properties. I don’t want to do that. It’s a waste of a date. You know, you get a lot of tie kickers and it’s low spend.

But you know, we work with a local company here and we do two shows a year or wedding fairs a year and we did one yesterday and we were packed and we got 16 inquiries, five of those are holding. But they’d never heard of us or didn’t know about us before this show was advertised. So, you know, try it.

And I think if you’re even as an established wedding business, you know, we’re still doing stuff like that and I think it works out.

And it’s about banging the drum, isn’t it, ultimately, and being heard and if people can reach new customers that you can’t or have different channels and I think that’s super important. So we don’t do anything radical, but we’re consistent with it and we keep pushing forward.

Becca
00:18:23.510 – 00:19:24.740
Yeah. And I think again, going back to all of that, what you’ve talked about is the data is so important because you can have an opinion.

A wedding show’s not worthwhile for us or our team. It’s a waste of time.

And then you’ve done one and you’ve got some data and actually you’ll now be able to see whether you do get a return on investment, whether you do get those bookings and whether or not it’s worth it or not.

And I think a lot of the time, particularly solo business owners that I work with just make all of these their decisions on marketing, on feeling, oh, I feel like this doesn’t work for me. I feel like directories work for me or they don’t work for me.

I feel like social media is where it should be, but actually feeling is not that helpful. The data is incredibly important and directories can work for you.

But at the same time, I met with a venue the other week and I was doing a review of where they were at and they were like number 39 of the venues in their area. And I was like, no one’s going to number 39.

I’m sorry to break it to you, but, you know, if you’re lucky, if someone scrolled down 4 or 5, but if you’re on 39, this is not what this is not. I cannot see how you’re going to.

Richard
00:19:24.740 – 00:19:26.820
Turn this around exactly 100%.

Becca
00:19:27.300 – 00:20:12.440
Okay, so I came to work with you earlier this year and I did a full marketing review and I came and worked with your team, which is how I’ve got to know your team and the venue in quite so much depth as I had now. I think it’s quite a brave decision for anyone, whenever they come to work with me to say, can you do a marketing review of my business?

And I always say, do you really want to know?

Because it is basically taking your baby that you’ve spent ages on and handing it over to someone else and letting them pull it apart and say, this doesn’t work. Have you tried this? Have you thought about this? And it can be quite a scary experience. So what was that experience like for you?

And also, how did it go down with your team? Because sometimes they can be quite profitable, precious about the way they work as well.

Richard
00:20:12.600 – 00:21:02.280
I think we, for me, going into January 25th, like I mentioned earlier, I was a bit conscious of us sort of playing the same sort of Richard tricks and I was, you know, it doesn’t want, you don’t want it to be the Richard show, you know, so that’s why I kind of went out there myself practically to, to network a bit more and see what’s going on in the industry and go to more events and obviously that’s where I, I come across yourself and I, when I found out you could come in and do a few full audit of our, of our, obviously the sales process and putting in inquiry and also of our competition and look at our social media, I was like, this is amazing. It’s just what we need. And the team were really keen for it as well.

And that’s the sort of culture we’ve got here where it’s not, you know, we’re the best and we do it our way. And we’re not going to change. We’re really open to that because ultimately it’s going to result in more bookings.

So, yeah, it was a really, really great experience to get you on board and we, you know, we welcome the feedback and the team were really, really receptive to it.

Becca
00:21:02.280 – 00:21:18.020
Okay, well, that’s good. That shows the culture that you’ve built, because that could be the first hurdle is people even letting go of what they’ve done.

We done that and I came and I presented the findings to you and your team. Were there certain things that landed with you that made you think, oh, yeah, hadn’t thought about that.

Richard
00:21:18.100 – 00:21:49.800
Yeah, there’s a few things you’re like, oh, God, we know that. But it’s one of those things you just put to the back burner because you get busy. And there was loads of things like, well, that is a fantastic idea.

Why haven’t we thought of that sooner? How, you know, let’s get it done, let’s integrate that and get it moving quickly.

So it was a. Yeah, it was, it was a bit of both to answer that question. You know, there was a lot of things there that you just think, oh, why aren’t we doing this? This is silly.

But there were some real big ticket items as well. It took, you know, you came up with a few ideas and we thought, okay, we need to do this, but you can’t be implemented straight away.

And then we kind of created our action plan and we went from there.

Becca
00:21:49.880 – 00:22:03.800
And it’s always a marathon, not Sprint, because there’s easy fixes like this button doesn’t work or you know, change the wording in this email. But actually some of the longer term fixes around the website and the SEO, they’re bigger picture projects. Not everything is, is fixable overnight.

Richard
00:22:04.040 – 00:22:06.680
I think the main thing was the website, wasn’t it?

Becca
00:22:06.760 – 00:22:07.210
Yeah.

Richard
00:22:07.520 – 00:22:22.400
You know, the fact that people are inquiring on our website and they weren’t getting the brochure quickly, you know, it was happening the next day when people in the office and we added that little bit of automation. Well, we’ve added a fair bit now, but we’ll get to that. But that, that was a big ticket for me. I was like, why, when we’re not doing this years ago.

Becca
00:22:22.480 – 00:22:55.460
Yeah.

And I think that’s one of the things that was most interesting for me to present because I did inquire with your team and I inquired with all of your competitors at the same time and I remember pulling up that thing on the screen, a table that I’d made that basically showed your team’s response time and what you’d done exactly in line with the other competitors and all of the other competitors had beaten you.

I think that’s a really stark thing to look at and think, yeah, we think we’re keeping up with our competitors, but oh dear, we are already number five in the inbox because the other four have already replied. And yeah, I think that was a big wake up call.

Richard
00:22:55.700 – 00:23:16.930
Well, because we, we were busy, like say every year we were growing the business. So internally we’re like, oh, we’re doing a great job here. We’re good. And it wasn’t, we didn’t, we didn’t.

I didn’t start talking to you, for example, because, you know, the sales numbers were declining, inquiries were declining. It wasn’t like that at all. It was, we wanted to be better, but it really was a highlight.

Think, oh, we think we’re okay, but actually maybe we’re not, you know, and.

Becca
00:23:16.930 – 00:23:47.240
Actually that’s the best time, and that’s the best time for someone to speak.

I think sometimes if, if people hit rock bottom before they decide they want to do something better, that’s actually a really difficult client to work with.

But actually the best clients are the ones that are doing well, but see that they need to keep making the 1% improvements because they’re the ones who are going to stay ahead.

Because otherwise, like you said, if you keep on doing the same things you’ve always done and it works for you, suddenly you realize it’s just sloping away slowly because you haven’t kept up with the competitors. And then you hit rock bottom and you’re like, help?

Richard
00:23:47.640 – 00:24:01.800
Yeah, it’s too late. Oh, you know, two years for that, for that pipeline to build up again and you’re in trouble. You know, your cash flow is going to suffer.

So now we’re really tough. We, we did that process and we’re going to continue it. You know, we’re not going to stop either. It’s going to be an ongoing thing.

Becca
00:24:01.960 – 00:25:32.480
So the big thing. Let me cough.

The big thing that came out from our session was that I realized that your team was still doing almost everything to do with weddings on an Excel spreadsheet or with lots of paper forms. And when we came and I worked with the team and we looked at your process, we realized actually there is a gap here.

Maybe we do need to look at some kind of system. I know it was something you’d already been considering and you’d been thinking about yourself and so I guess the timing worked.

So we did look at implementing a system. The system we went with after you looking at various different options was bright beers. And we decided, right, we’re going to get this going now.

One of the hurdles, I remember talking to you after the session about getting it going was like, the time is going to take to set it all up because it is quite complicated and your team are very busy. And me and my team said, you know what, we can set it up for you. That’s something we do.

Give us your process, we’ll set it up for you and get it going now.

It was not an easy thing for us to set up in terms of, you know, you’re not a small venue, you are a very busy venue with a very complicated process in some ways, internally. And your team, it became apparent to me very quickly how many things they were doing for every single client.

Incredible touch points, loads of upsells.

But trying to take that from their heads and get it into a system was, Was interesting, but also amazing at the same time because it’s now saved them so much time. So how, how have you seen the impact of starting to use a system over them just doing everything on a spreadsheet?

Richard
00:25:32.480 – 00:27:23.680
Yeah, we’re, it’s true though, in so much time we’re put into Excel, but yeah, it was, it’s, it’s been great. So the initial impact straightaway bank is sales. So the sales team, you know, the system’s automated, it’s chasing.

We’re getting tangible data that, that’s great. And I think it does. It definitely saves time, it makes it consistent and there’s a process. So that’s a huge plus.

And we can see already that what we’ve made in sales this year, I think we’re like 45% up on what we’ve sold this year versus last year.

So it’s a huge factor that is how we’ve automated the system and some of the other things we’ve done in our marketing processes and how we bring people in. But the wedding. So we call them wedding specialists here, but you might call them wedding coordinators or planners.

So we, you know, terms of their systems and their process and all the different sort of automations we put in is going to save them loads of time. So we’re still, it’s.

It’s funny because by the time we went live was sort of mid summer and then a lot of, obviously the girls tend to be working three months or so ahead anyway with final detail mix with couples. So we’re Kind of a lot of that stuff is starting to be rolled out now as we go into 2026 planning.

So we, you know, the system, we haven’t seen the full benefit fully yet from that side and we will probably come spring when everything’s on there is when we’ll really tell the difference. What it has done though, it just creates like a foolproof process.

And I think that from the wedding planning point of view, it’s just going to save them so much time. And they worked so hard with you, didn’t they, to add in all these different steps that’s going to make, and also make the couple’s journey better.

And we’re really looking forward to the fact that couples can also log on on the back end of the system and they can add information, be it around food choices and the menus.

So, yeah, no, it’s great, it’s exciting, but it’s definitely, you know, you’re not going to implement that system and then once it’s done, it’s live and you’re ready to go, it’s going to take time to trickle in. So yeah, we’re still working progress on that side and I think it’ll be another few months and then it’s, then it’ll be done.

But it’s so far it’s yeah. So good.

Becca
00:27:23.840 – 00:28:48.060
And I think as well, when we work with the team, really it’s only bookings that are coming in now since we set it up and also then from January 26, so they do still have some weddings that they’re doing manually.

And I can imagine, because I have got to know the team a little bit, that some of those processes are probably, they’re thinking, oh, it’s annoying now because I’m having to do this all myself. Whereas they’re used to the other ones, some of it’s going to be going automatically.

But what’s been amazing is the way that they’ve taken the system and then improved their own processes because they have the system.

So talking about customer experience, when I worked with them and looked at, okay, once you get handed a booking, what is the process between that client booking and the wedding day?

And for a lot of venues that may be one meeting or one email in a two year period, whereas your girl said, no, I want to make sure our couples are hearing from us pretty much every month until their wedding day.

Not to annoy them, not to sell to them, but to give them helpful, tangible advice to sort of help them plan different elements of their wedding along the way. So it doesn’t all come in a final planning meeting and so they can look at ways that they can upsell and add other things along the journey.

And they came back to me with this huge list which if you were to do everything manually would be an impossible thing to do.

So things like every first year wedding anniversary, after a couple gets married at Mulberry House they’ll get an email on their wedding anniversary wishing them happy one year anniversary which is a lovely thing to do. But if you’re trying to do that times 150 and remember it all, it’s.

Richard
00:28:48.060 – 00:28:49.660
Quite a job in itself, isn’t it? Yeah.

Becca
00:28:49.740 – 00:29:10.590
As the system’s now doing it for you so I do think it’s, it’s definitely alleviated a lot of their time and I think it means they can now add in extra elements they didn’t have before. From your point of view as a manager, what has it meant for you?

Because you now can see a lot more data than you could before and I guess that’s only going to increase.

Richard
00:29:11.390 – 00:30:13.220
Yeah, for me to be able to see facts and figures and it might be boring, maybe I look at it a little bit too commercially but I know that we’ve set this up now and so the couples are going to benefit from this and the team are going to benefit from it.

So for me now it’s just great that I can sit with our accountant and you know, small businesses, cash flow forecasts are important and we’re fortunate that we invest heavily in our properties. The next January we’re going to do another £450,000 in capex. But that cash flow has to be right.

So now just looking at the cash flow forecast, you know, wedding businesses, deposits is a big thing in wedding and you can just see everything when it’s coming in, how it’s been paid, when it’s been paid. That part’s automated so the receipts are sent through and that’s amazing.

And then just looking at in terms of how the inquiries are coming in, how that’s converting, who is coming from.

So for me, to begin with every day I was logging on, looking at my inquiries, who’s come in, just looking at each one and where they are in that sales funnel.

Whereas now it’s a little bit, okay, you get used to it and you tend just to look at more of the report section but it’s about, I suppose it’s more of a control thing, isn’t it? You know, it’s now being controlled and that’s really quite comforting to be honest.

Becca
00:30:13.220 – 00:31:03.960
Also, it means that now, if there’s an issue or a blip or you think things are down this month, it gives you a tangible place to go and look at what’s going on. So you can see how many show rounds the team have done. You can see how many you know have been booked or no shows.

You can see how many inquiries have come and the percentages of conversions from those inquiries. So at least it gives you tangible data to go in and look.

And like you said, when you’re making marketing decisions for next year or the year after, you can actually go in and filter and see. Okay, well, we’ve had this many inquiries from this place. How many bookings have we had from this place?

And I, I guess the more data that goes into the system and the more time people are using it, the more you’re going to be able to use that data to your advantage.

And yes, it does sound boring, but actually, I do think the most successful business owners are the ones that pay attention to the numbers and the data rather than the feelings. Like I said, if you’re not making.

Richard
00:31:03.960 – 00:31:26.360
A proper informed decision, then you know it’s not going to work, in my opinion. So we were doing a lot of this stuff before, but we’re doing it manually, so it wasn’t always 100% right.

You know, we weren’t, we weren’t a million miles away. But now the fit, that information is ready, click your fingers, it’s there.

So, you know, I felt as a business, we, we still had controls in place, but now this is just foolproof and it’s so much quicker.

Becca
00:31:26.520 – 00:32:10.390
Yeah.

And I think the other thing I was talking to a venue about this the other day is that you can, at least with the contact guarantee, every couple’s going to have the same experience.

Because what they were saying is, like some couples, when they were quieter, they were making sure they touched base with them a lot and they were wishing them good luck on their wedding day. And then other couples that were in the middle of a really busy season were kind of slipping through the net.

And so although in a little bit you lose the personal touch because the emails are automated, the couple doesn’t necessarily know because they’re written in a way that feels personalized. At least you know, everyone’s getting the same experience. So at three months before the wedding, they’re all getting the same email.

One month before the wedding, they’re all getting the same email.

The day before the wedding, the day of the wedding, the day after the wedding, they’re all Having the same experience regardless of how busy your team are.

Richard
00:32:11.110 – 00:33:00.350
Yeah, 100%. But also there’s a lot of another side.

There’s a lot of directories out there that sometimes, you know, you can get a vast amount of inquiries and nothing really materializes. Well, now you don’t have to worry about that because I’ve been ghosted. I’ve been ghosted.

When you’re manually replying to every inquiry and then you don’t hear back from X amount of them, it’s quite demoralizing. Whereas now the system does that follow up and the team aren’t wasting time on all these emails where the reality is, if you’re going to receive.

I’m making up the numbers now, but say you receive 80 or 90 inquiries a month and the reality is only 10 of those couples come back to you, but then you’re not manually chasing that up the system does it. That’s amazing because you’re not wasting your time on, which I’m not saying they’re not really inquiries, far from it.

But my point is they’re not necessarily always going to come back to you. They’re just ticking boxes and multiple venues when they’re at that stage on that, on that booking platform.

And then you haven’t respond to loads of emails.

Becca
00:33:00.350 – 00:33:14.109
Yeah, and it basically is just adding as another sieve, isn’t it?

It’s a filter system so that, yes, they’ve done an inquiry, then the system’s going to email them until the point where they sift through that and if they’re actually serious, they’ll start talking to a human rather than having to have the automated emails.

Richard
00:33:14.109 – 00:33:14.790
100%.

Becca
00:33:15.190 – 00:33:38.320
Okay, so you’ve seen a lot in Mulberry House. You’ve seen the changes over the last five years.

You see the changes, the changes in the industry since you’ve worked in it from a very young age as well. So you’ve seen a lot. What do you think the future holds?

What do you think is going to happen in the future and what do you think are some of the challenges venues are going to face over the next few years?

Richard
00:33:38.720 – 00:37:05.280
Yeah, good question. I think, I think ultimately, I think wedding venues, you know, and we’re, we’re maybe only just starting this part of our journey.

I think the sustainability thing is really, really important and I think if I was to stare at our Essex venue, should I say, is based in Essex and I think your average Essex couple is not as worried about sustainability, maybe as a couple, if you’re maybe in central London or maybe if you’re in the Cotswolds or, you know, more, you know, these sort of country parts of the country. But that is something we’re really going to work on over the next five years.

I think that consumer kind of buying habit for weddings will be important. Couples will want to know more about sustainability. We’re seeing it already.

A lot of our couples, it’s funny what they’re forfeiting in their budget because they want to, you know, it’s all about experiences and hospitality. Has been for a long time. But I think it’s interesting what couples are prepared to not have now in terms of.

It could be venue styling, it could be less so. Food and beverage, I think that is more of an experience.

But they definitely want to spend money in different ways and I think venues need to innovate that now.

We’re really working on our food and beverage offering going forward and how we can make the product reflect that because, again, it’s all part of the experience. And, you know, everything has to be Instagrammable. It’s been like that for a long time. We get that, but it’s taking it to the next level.

So that’s something we’re working on. Great.

Food and drink is always been a thing for us, but the days of really poor banking event food is, you know, you just can’t get away with anymore. Great, great cocktails, English sparkling wine, you know, working outside of it. So that’s definitely something we’re going to do.

And I think AI is, you know, it’s scary and it’s. We were talking about this last week at an event, you know, and even the CRRM is our CRM.

BrightBiz is going to have some AI functionality coming out soon. Chatting to EAM, he’s one of the directors and that kind of blew my mind. So, yeah, it’s.

That’s something I think all good venue operators need to keep an eye on and make sure they’re out there and talking to the right people about that. We’re about to. Next year was going to relaunch a whole new website and we’re going to throw quite a lot of money at that.

And I’m almost thinking now to put the brakes on because it’s all about how AI is going to work for your business. So that’s something I’m really keen to learn more about. And I think that’s going, you know, about the next five years of wedding venues.

But how are our couples going to be buying from us in five years? It’s gonna be so different to how they buy now and then what their expectation is.

You know, couples now, the younger generation, I don’t like stereotyping everybody in terms of like Gen Z, millennial, whatever else, but you know, the people are a little bit more demanding couples potentially in terms of they want more contact, they, they have a lot more questions. And I think they can be a bit like that on the day as well.

And if couples are choosing not to spend money on styling but want to spend that on experiences, then the, the team on the day end up having to maybe do more in terms of dr, how you set expectations of how that’s done. So the team are definitely under more pressure than ever before in how they plan and execute the wedding.

So I think that’s something to really keep an eye on going forward.

How we manage our bride and groom, how we exceed expectations, but how you manage that, because ultimately that’s going to cost the business more money in terms of resource. So I think using technology will be a massive part in the planning and then how you execute on the day is important.

And we’re looking at sustainable options for the couples that don’t want to spend a huge amount of money on venue styling. How we can do sustainable options that will mean maybe a supplier will come in and do the setup.

And it’s, it’s kind of like the pre loved kind of element we want to use rather than just throw away. So yeah, I think that’s going to be really important as well.

Becca
00:37:05.440 – 00:37:45.610
Yeah, big things to face actually.

And it’s interesting because they’re two opposite ends of the spectrum in many ways because in one hand we’re trying to be more sustainable, on the other hand we’re trying to work out how the robots are going to be taking over and changing things and actually trying to balance those two totally different things I think is going to be interesting. I don’t know what the answers are going to be, particularly when it comes to the AI stuff. I’ve been myself looking into it.

I had a conversation with another venue this week about whether or not I felt they needed an AI chat bot on their website or whether that was going to be outdated in a few months. And I was like, honestly, AI changes so quickly and so rapidly at the moment. No one knows what is going to be the thing in 12 months time yet.

Richard
00:37:46.160 – 00:38:17.410
And I think ultimately though, with weddings still an experience where you want to talk to people, you know, and that’s hospitality. Right. Regardless.

And I think, you know, use AI, this is how I look at it now use AI to support you and make you more efficient, but you don’t want to lose that personal touch. And I think if the industry went down that route, be really sad, but I think if it can help you, great.

But you still want to talk to people and you know, there is that element of emotional kind of touch points and planning your wedding and executing your wedding. But yeah, I’m really excited by it. I think it’s scary for sure, it scares me, but I’m really excited to see how that evolves.

Becca
00:38:17.800 – 00:38:27.720
Fantastic. Now Rich, before I let you go, I always end my podcast with the same question. So I’m going to pose that to you now.

And it’s what’s one thing you personally wish you’d known sooner in business?

Richard
00:38:28.040 – 00:39:19.570
I think not so much maybe in business.

But for me, I think coming back into smaller independent business, the biggest thing for me, if I could go back in my last five years back at Mulberry and Mulberry is like I say I was in hotels, this is more wedding venue is, you know, the importance of getting out there and networking and speaking to different professionals because you do, you don’t want to get stale.

So my biggest thing, I reckon, you know, maybe a couple of years ago, I wish I made more of an effort to get out there and see what’s happening in the industry and, and talk to like minded people because eyes, yeah, you, you don’t want to be getting stale and it can be a bit lonely, you know, if you, because you’re the, you’re the guy at the top who’s meant to be leading this team. So that’s probably something I wish I did sooner when I went back into the smaller independent businesses.

Because you haven’t got a board of directors above you that are pushing you and challenging you to, who specialize in certain kind of discipline. So that’s, that’s the thing for me, absolutely.

Becca
00:39:19.570 – 00:39:43.290
It’s so important to get out there, to keep learning, to keep growing and to meet other people and to find those people that can help you move forward.

I meet so many people as well in our industry who’ve, you know, gone with some website company or gone with an SEO company or something that doesn’t understand our industry and has taken loads of money from them. And then they come back and they’re like, I wish I’d asked a few more people first for some recommendations.

Richard
00:39:43.690 – 00:39:58.390
I could have gone out, spent 15, 20,000 pounds on a new website and then a few months later gone, oh, how have you AI optimize this, I’d be like, oh, okay. Because, you know, I just haven’t had conversations with people in a. In a. In a room at a champagne reception in London. You think?

Oh, you know, stuff like that. I think it’s just so important.

Becca
00:39:58.470 – 00:40:12.470
Yes. So, so important. Richard, it’s been such a pleasure both working with your team at Mulberry House and having you on this podcast.

I’m sure we’re going to do more together over the coming months and years, but I appreciate your time and thank you for being here.

Richard
00:40:12.470 – 00:40:14.930
Oh, thank you, Becca. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you for asking me.

Becca
00:40:15.720 – 00:40:36.280
Such a great conversation with Richard. Really interesting to hear all about a venue from the GM’s perspective.

Like I said at the beginning of the episode, often we talk to people who are lower down the chain. Maybe you’re the wedding coordinator, maybe you’re the salesperson, and you get frustrated at your gm.

Well, maybe go and get them to listen to this episode and learn how that culture can filter down from the top. I’ll see you next time.