Show notes:
Today I am chatting with magician Oli Couchman, the man behind Revilo Twist Magic. We talk about how magic came into his life, how you enter the magic circle, and how he quit his job to work full time doing what he loves. Oli shares tips on networking, what’s working for him right now and why you need to be proactive in your sales strategy.
Visit the Revilo Twist Website
Join the Wedding Pro Members Lounge
Time stamps:
00:08 – Networking Strategies for Wedding Professionals
02:08 – The Journey into Magic
08:39 – Taking the Leap: Transitioning to Full-Time Magic
12:30 – The Evolution of a Wedding Entertainer
22:55 – Networking and Client Engagement Strategies
29:13 – Navigating Challenges in the Wedding Industry
31:17 – Navigating Vulnerability in Business
Transcript:
Oliver
00:00:00.240 – 00:00:15.520
But it’s just about talking with people so they know who you are, what you do and why you do it so they can recommend you giving back to them first as well before they give to you. So thinking, how can I actually slot them into my network? There’s so many people that I’ll book out for events before they’ve given me anything.
And it’s the same.
Becca
00:00:16.000 – 00:00:59.830
I’m Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger and you’re listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I’m here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you’re in the right place. Let’s get going with today’s episode. Today I’m chatting with Oli from Revilo Twist Magic.
Oli is a multi award winning magician, host and toastmaster based in Northampton but working all over the uk performing at weddings and corporate events. Oli recently appeared briefly on the podcast where we talked about sustainability, but today I wanted to get him back. Welcome to the podcast.
Oliver
00:00:59.830 – 00:01:00.590
Thank you very much.
Becca
00:01:00.670 – 00:01:29.650
I am thrilled to have you back.
We did talk very briefly at the Guides for Brides event where I was doing my live podcast episode and I said on the night, oh, you have to come back for a full length episode. And we have got you today. So I’m thrilled to have you on the podcast. I’m thrilled to be able to get to know you a little bit better.
Now we need to tell the listeners the secret that you just told me about the name of your business before we go any further, because I was asking you over and over again how to pronounce the name of your business and then you told me a secret that was hidden in plain sight.
Oliver
00:01:29.730 – 00:01:40.370
Exactly that. So Revelo Twist magic I’ve got to give my mum credit for, to be honest, but Revolo is actually Oliver backwards. So Oliver the other way Twist.
And it kind of fell perfectly into place. Really.
Becca
00:01:40.370 – 00:02:08.280
Yeah, there’s so many nuances. There’s like a cryptic crossword. Oliver Twist is a musical theater character. The twist of the magic with the twisting of the letter.
Yeah, there’s just too much there. But I would, I could have looked at the name of your business all day long and still not really understood that.
So we had to just get that out there straight away now before we dive into your business and what you do these days. I’d love to just go back a bit and find out a bit more about you as a person.
Have you always worked in magic or did you have a career before the magic?
Oliver
00:02:08.280 – 00:02:20.400
So before I got into magic, I started in asset finance, which is very different, but actually overlaps more than you think that I moved into recruitment and then that’s where I finally took the leap of faith to go into magic.
Becca
00:02:20.400 – 00:02:30.940
Okay, that is very different to what I thought you were going to say. That does sound very different to working as a magician. Now, do you still do any of your day jobs alongside that or are you now full time magician?
Oliver
00:02:30.940 – 00:02:32.780
No, so I’m now full time with magic.
Becca
00:02:33.020 – 00:02:59.160
Amazing. Well, that is a bit of a leap. I’m sure we’ll get there in a moment. But before then, let’s go back a bit earlier.
Have you always been interested in magic?
Because I know, having children myself, that there comes a phase when they hit about 7, 8 or 9 where they want a magic set and we buy them the magic set and they learn to do about three tricks that are very obvious, how they’re done, and then they put the magic set away and forget about it. Was that your experience? Did you do magic as a child or did you find it later?
Oliver
00:02:59.320 – 00:03:27.400
Yeah, kind of. I always sort of dabbled and had an interest in it.
So if you see it on TV or the sort of magic sets, which you probably remember Marvin’s magic and that sort of stuff. But the real passion for me started with a chap called Clive Fletcher, who always give credit to.
I was at a party, just sat down at enjoying a bread roll or whatever you’re doing, and he came over, did this magic trick where he cut a piece of rope in half and put it back together and everyone’s faces just like drops. And it was that moment where I was like, this guy’s pretty cool. And yeah, that’s kind of where the passion started. Really?
Becca
00:03:27.640 – 00:03:42.840
Okay. Amazing. Now a lot of us have that experience. I love magic. I love someone walking around at an event and doing magic tricks.
But it’s never entered my brain that I would be good enough to actually go ahead and learn it myself. So how did you go from this is cool to I could learn how to do this properly?
Oliver
00:03:42.840 – 00:04:09.820
I think going back to sort of the school days, which is when it kind of happened. I was studying drama and that sort of fell hand in hand with the performance element.
And I’ve always been that kind of cheeky chappie who likes to be the center of attention, probably. And having the magic. To be able to do that by having something valuable to actually give to the group rather than being the glass clown was just.
It kind of. It works for me really. And just seeing that reaction from everyone and just. It just really changed the vibe and I really liked that, that moment.
Becca
00:04:09.980 – 00:04:26.230
Amazing. So you decided, yeah, I could have a go at this. Now, again, excuse my ignorance, because I know nothing about how to become a magician. Did you.
I mean, I guess you went on a bit further from those children’s magic sets that you buy as a child. Like, did you go out and buy tricks? Did you look online? Like, what was the process?
Oliver
00:04:26.390 – 00:05:04.110
Went to Hogwarts. There’s a local magician’s club called the North Answershire Magicians Club, which is where Clive invited me to.
I went along there and it was like a kid in a sweet shop moment. Everyone’s just doing these magic tricks and look at this, look at that. And it’s like. So that’s kind of where it started.
And then you’ve got the Blackpool Magicians Convention, which is a huge convention where they have lectures, they have like a dealer’s hall where you can go and look at buying tricks. They’ve got speakers there. I met Dynamo there, Stephen Mulhern, some of the great names in magic.
And it’s just, yeah, the more you kind of look into it and get into it, the passion just grows because you realize how many sort of avenues there are that you can go into as well.
Becca
00:05:04.110 – 00:05:20.510
I mean, you said that it’s like Hogwarts, but the more you describe it, it is a little bit like that because it does feel like there’s this secret society that none of us know anything about because I didn’t know that such events existed. So can anyone turn up? Do you have to be a member of the Magic Circle? How does this work?
Oliver
00:05:20.510 – 00:06:02.770
So the Magic Circle came a little bit later down the line for me. It’s obvious.
Obviously, a very prestigious group in London which you can go and visit to go to the theater or they’ve got like a small museum in there. But before that, if you want to get into magic, there’s. There’s lots of routes you can take. Obviously I saw a live performer.
Many people see it on TikTok or YouTube and things like that.
And it’s kind of just having that genuine passion to go into it, because learning how to do a magic trick, if you’re not going to be a magician, just spoils the whole element of it, to be honest. You really need to either do it completely and, and that’s it. You’re going to be a magician or you don’t want to know.
So I think if you’ve got that genuine passion, you genuinely want to learn, it’s something you really want to do, then. Yeah. The club in Northampton, 100% would welcome everyone with open arms.
Becca
00:06:02.770 – 00:06:22.170
Amazing. So basically you don’t want to do it unless you actually want to be a magician, otherwise it’s going to ruin magic for you for the forever in a day.
And I feel like, especially, I know it’s definitely talked about within the magic circle, but just generally amongst magicians there’s that unspoken rule that we should never explain how to do a trick. Does everyone just know that that’s a thing you have to sign stuff when you go?
Oliver
00:06:22.470 – 00:06:40.710
Yeah. So as part of the audition process, you have to kind of say what you would do in certain situations.
So if, if you were asked about a trick or you saw somebody doing a trick slightly wrong in front of a group and things like that, and what would you do here and there? And it’s all about just kind of protecting the art really, because if it’s not protected, it no longer has that same value and art that it is.
Becca
00:06:40.710 – 00:06:55.370
That’s fantastic. I honestly, I could ask you questions about the secret side of magic all day long, but that’s not what we’re here for.
We are here to talk about your business journey. So, yeah, you decided you wanted to do magic, you went along to some conventions, you joined some groups.
At what point did you start getting paid to do magic?
Oliver
00:06:55.370 – 00:07:35.500
So I was looking back at this because I had a feeling this question would come up and I was looking back through some messages and it was when I was at school, I think I did a party for £30. It was just. Yeah, but looking back, it was crazy.
But to earn that money for it was, was phenomenal at the time because it was, I’m doing something I love, I’m earning a bit of money for it, but pocket money. And speaking to people around me, it was like, that’s a bit expensive, isn’t it, to do some magic.
And obviously it’s grown from there into the point where it’s a full time business. But that, that event kind of led to someone else in the local village saying, oh, there’s a magician, he could do our party.
And then I did a kids party, I did a few other events and then eventually obviously landed into my first wedding.
Becca
00:07:35.500 – 00:07:43.420
Amazing. And so have you always, or to start with, did you do your magic alongside your full time Career. Were you balancing both and how did that work?
Oliver
00:07:43.420 – 00:08:28.540
Yeah, so like I said, I kind of discovered magic in school and sort of going into sixth form and then going into my first full time job, it was a great kind of on the first week it’s like I can do a few magic tricks and then the. Into my second job in recruitment was the. They had like a welcome dinner for the.
They sort of celebrated they’d hit target or whatever for the month and it was before I was meant to start and I came in to that welcome dinner and did a magic show as like my introduction to the company and it was just, yeah, everyone knew me as the magical recruiter or whatever and just balancing that with a full time job is what led me to make the jump.
Because it was just so much like I was working the daytime nine to five, going home, working on the business, going out to a gig, going to weddings at the weekends, rushing home or making calls on my lunch break. And yeah, it was just, it was crazy.
Becca
00:08:28.540 – 00:08:45.500
Yeah, it’s exhausting. And there’ll be a lot of people listening that are still very much in that phase of trying to build their business.
Go to work, go out in the evenings and it is exhausting, but it’s also scary to take that leap. Do you remember the time when you thought, I’m going to quit this job that pays me every single month and I’m going to go it alone?
Oliver
00:08:45.580 – 00:09:55.200
Yeah, I remember it really well because it was such a big decision and such a stressful one as well. And I think my probably the scariest bit was getting approval from everyone that I knew. So asking my mum, should I do this? Should I make the jump?
Asking my dad, should I do it? My partner, people that I worked with, my boss even, and just everyone I was asking had their own opinions. Some people were saying, yeah, go for it.
And other people are going, you’re so stupid for making the jump. Why would you do that? Jumping out the pan into the fire. And I remember there was this magician who said, you’ll never be ready to make the jump.
And that stuck with me.
And a couple of weeks later I went to an Ed Sheeran concert and Ed Sheeran said, if someone out there is looking to follow their dream and make the jump, go in tomorrow, quit your job and do it. And I was thinking that at the time and it was just like, oh my goodness, there’s signs everywhere.
And we had this trainer lady called Julie came in who was sort of breaking down each person in the business of how they could Improve and their mindset blocks and things like that. And she said to me, ollie, what’s your biggest block?
And I said, well, I could probably be earning this money doing what I love, and I don’t think I’m passionate enough to work into the evenings to get deals over the line and things like that because I’ve got so much else to focus on. And she just said, we’ll go then. And that was it. And I was like, oh, my goodness. And the next day I went in and handed in my notice.
Becca
00:09:55.360 – 00:10:00.240
Well, what I hear from that is that we have Ed Sheeran to thank for you being full time in your business.
Oliver
00:10:00.560 – 00:10:02.880
Honestly, Teddy, if you’re listening, thank you.
Becca
00:10:04.320 – 00:10:37.340
Absolutely. I just think you’re right though, because you can seek approval from everyone else.
And actually that’s really difficult because people do have very wide ranging perspectives. I remember even when I started my business, there were some people that like, what are you doing? Go get a proper job. Why are you just messing about?
Like you. And if you listen too much to that noise, you will never do it. Because ultimately, of course, we want people to be, you know, approval.
Having approval of what we’re doing. But sometimes that can actually be a barrier. And when we surround ourselves with people who are like, don’t do it, we’ll never do it.
So thank you, Ed Sheeran, for telling you to do it.
Oliver
00:10:37.340 – 00:10:45.300
I think there’s a massive block on that as well for people saying like, oh, you’re unemployed now. Actually, no, I’m self employed. There is a big difference and there’s a lot of people who don’t understand that.
Becca
00:10:45.300 – 00:10:51.180
Yeah. Although sometimes on day one of having quit your actual job and being in the business, you think, okay, what am I, what am I going to do?
Oliver
00:10:51.180 – 00:10:51.890
What do I do now?
Becca
00:10:53.240 – 00:11:38.580
Exactly. It can feel scary, but actually often I say on this podcast it is scary.
But at some point you do have to take the leap because you hit that point where you can’t actually grow your business anymore while still working a full time job. Or you will just hit complete burnout and be exhausted because there’s only so much you can do by working evenings.
And what happens is nothing gets your full attention. So your day job isn’t getting the most out of you, as you just said, and also your business isn’t getting the most out of you.
So I don’t think there’s ever a perfect time. I think it has to be the right time for you as an individual. But absolutely, it’s never, it’s never obvious that we have to do it.
And it will always, always feel scary and be a risk. But I’m glad you’ve done it. I’m glad you’ve taken that leap and gone full time. So how does your work look now?
What’s your kind of split between weddings, between corporate? How does an average week look in your world?
Oliver
00:11:38.740 – 00:12:26.240
So in terms of, like, a number of events, I’m kind of sitting at about, I’d say, just over 100 at the moment for this year, which is split across weddings, corporate events, trade shows, awards nights, team building, all kinds of stuff. About 60% of those, I’d say, are weddings at the moment.
And that’s probably transitioning more and more over time because the traction in that industry of people telling their friends and families and going, yeah, we had this magician and so on, that’s kind of taking over quicker, I’d say. But in the split of my week, Monday to Friday, I treat it very much like a normal job.
I work from Normally, sort of 9 o’ clock in the morning till whenever I finish, generally, but I try and keep it to, like, 6 o’ clock at night if I can. And then the weekends again are out gigging for weddings and events in the week.
You’ve also got trade shows and team building and that sort of stuff, which is more kind of weekday work, if that makes sense.
Becca
00:12:26.240 – 00:12:52.520
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And it’s great because it means you can split up your time a little bit, keeps it varied.
But also, as we know, there’s not so much work for weddings in the week, so at least it’s giving you other avenues to bring in the income. Let’s focus on weddings for a moment. You said about suddenly going from, you know, your 30 quid at a party to doing a wedding.
Do you remember the first time you got asked to be at a wedding? Because there is something about being a wedding over just being at someone’s birthday that feels like an added layer of pressure.
Oliver
00:12:52.520 – 00:13:36.460
Yeah, I remember it really well, it at Dogmore House in Northamptonshire for Imogen and Paul. They were the most lovely couple and all of their guests were incredible. And I. It was the kind of.
The first time where I’d actually had that feedback of how I was performing at a wedding or an event. The first time it was like, oh, thanks very much, never saw them again.
Whereas this one, I kind of stayed afterwards to, I guess, map out what a wedding structure looks like, what part comes next in the day. And I wasn’t sort of shooting off anywhere.
And it’s just the Amount of people that said, well, you need to go on Britain’s Got Talent or you need to quit your job or you need to do this, you need to do that. You’re just incredible. And it was like, whoa, hang on a minute, what am I doing?
And it was, it was just really surreal to hear that feedback of so many people saying, so is this your full time gig? And it’s like, no, it’s not. And yeah, it was just crazy.
Becca
00:13:36.540 – 00:13:40.420
Love that. Have you ever thought about doing any of those things or have you ever done any of those TV shows?
Oliver
00:13:40.420 – 00:14:07.290
No. So I’ve not been on Presence, Got Talent or TV generally, other than probably in a football crowd somewhere.
But I had a message from Come Dine with me the other day. That’ll be an interesting one if that comes in. But no, for me it’s, it’s not about the, the being on TV and the fame side of it.
I just really want to have a business that allows me flexibility to earn money to live comfortably and also to have that time. Because I think building the business, sort of this stage of my life means that in the future I will have that flexibility for a family.
Becca
00:14:07.290 – 00:14:53.510
Yeah, absolutely.
And having worked in TV myself for a number of years, I don’t think it’s always as shiny and as lovely as it looks from the outside, because I know what it looks like when someone gives you a bad edit.
So, yeah, if it’s not on your bucket list, I don’t think you should go anywhere near it and just keep doing what you’re doing unless TV absolutely finds you.
Now, one thing I think with your business is I would put you, and this is not by any means meant to be insulting, but a lot of people would put you in the non essential wedding business category. And by that I mean, you know, people think, oh, I get engaged, I need a venue, I need food, I need a photographer, I need a dress.
And then everything else is kind of surplus to requirement. How do you get round that?
What’s your sales message when it comes to couples to say, actually, you should absolutely have me as an essential part of your day.
Oliver
00:14:53.510 – 00:15:56.750
I think there’s different avenues to look at it, but the main thing I always come back to is when I’ve been to a wedding before, what was it that I actually remembered? Was it the dress? Was it the cake? Was it the food? What was it? Was it the entertainment? Was it the band?
And what is it really that you’re going to be chatting about over breakfast the next day? Are you going to be saying, oh, the canapes were just the best, they were the highlight of the day.
Or are you going to say, do you remember that magician? I still can’t work out. He’s done it, he’s kept me up all night. And we just. You start chatting about an experience.
That’s probably the main selling point for me is it’s something that I might have some my reviews and messages from guests saying, we’re still talking about you two years after the wedding, and so on from there. And it’s just that moment of impossibility that you’re never going to forget. Most people haven’t seen a magician in real life ever.
And with the toastmaster element of the hosting side, that is probably one of the most important parts, because if you haven’t got a seamless day and it’s. It’s stressful, you’re not really enjoying it to its true potential.
If things go out off the timescale, off the timeline, and they’re running behind, who’s catching it up? Who’s getting people in the right places at the right time? Is everyone outside while you’ve got a band inside?
You know, it’s just keeping everything sort of flowing.
Becca
00:15:56.750 – 00:16:09.970
Yeah, absolutely. There’s lots of different elements then, to your business as it looks today.
So we know that you do the magic, you’ve mentioned that you do toastmasting, you do mc. At what point did you add those extra elements into the business, or were you doing that from day one?
Oliver
00:16:09.970 – 00:17:30.780
So one of the biggest things I realized quite early on, I’ve probably mentioned it a bit later as well, is, is having value in the business. And what can you add to your business to make it more valuable?
And I realized that having a magician there is great, but it’s only for a small part of the day, whereas if I’m there for the whole day, I can actually do magic at more points of the day. So it’s. It’s less forced and rushed.
If someone’s having a deep conversation in the drinks reception, I’m not interrupting and going, oh, here’s some mag, I can say, oh, they’re having a chat, I’ll come back in a bit. It allows that flexibility. And by doing that, I realized, actually I was there for that longer time.
I was helping with organizing the confetti, I was helping with getting the group photos together, I was helping with keeping people in the right place. And it just kind of naturally fell in that I was doing all of these bits without charging for it.
And then I went to a wedding for a family member, and their name was pronounced wrong on their entry to their wedding breakfast. And it was just really awkward. And I just saw everyone’s faces, just. You can imagine, just. And then with my surname as well. So my surname is Kuchman.
A lot of people call me Couchman because they don’t realize the same thing. If that was on my wedding, I’d think, oh, my goodness, you just want to get these moments 100% right.
And I know that by providing this service, I can do that so that my couples go into their day really relaxed. They know 100% they’ve got somebody who knows how to pronounce all their surnames, all their family names.
They know the exact running order of the day, the vibe they want it to be. If they don’t like being the center of attention, I’m not going to turn around and go, everyone, look over here. Do you know what I mean?
It’s just really respecting that and learning the couple inside and out so they feel comfortable.
Becca
00:17:31.400 – 00:17:43.360
Couple perspective. Do you find now you’ve got these additional services?
Are people generally, in the first instance, coming to you for the magic and then you’re using those extra things as an upsell, or people coming to you for those specific items?
Oliver
00:17:43.360 – 00:18:12.730
It’s a bit of both, really. I think by adding the service in, initially, I kind of thought, nobody’s going to go for that. I’m just going to be doing the magic.
And actually, I realized very quickly that everyone goes, I don’t want just the magic. And that kind of became almost my smaller package. But I do have inquiries where people get in touch about Toastmaster and they.
Oh, you’re a magician as well. Oh, wow, that’s incredible. Or the magician. I didn’t realize you do all of this stuff.
And by having those services kind of combined into one, they’re basically getting a planner, coordinator, magician, an extra best man. Really? Is that.
Becca
00:18:13.130 – 00:19:05.030
Yeah. So you’re basically.
You’ve done yourself a service because you’re getting more money for pretty much jobs that you were helping with and doing for free anyway. But now you can market them and know that you’re going to do a good job on them.
And I love that the surname thing is such a big deal, because that is a massive deal to me as well. People say my surname wrong all the time.
And actually when someone says it right or takes the time to know what it is to then say it right, it really does make a big impact. So I’m sure your couples appreciate that side of things as well.
Now when you look at your business, I think you said you’ve got about 100 bookings or something like that in this year. I always love to find out from people who I’m talking to where those inquiries are coming from because you know, we see a lot of buzz online.
You should do this marketing, you should do that marketing. But actually sometimes the reality is different to the noise. So when you look at the inquiries, the bookings you’ve got in the diary right now.
Could you give me a rough breakdown? Where are those inquiries actually coming from?
Oliver
00:19:05.030 – 00:20:19.540
Yeah, I mean the first thing I’d just like to congratulations to every wedding professional who is running social media and anything like that. Because it is a full time job and we all managed to somehow do it.
So yeah, social media is obviously one avenue which is really hard to grow but it’s really rewarding in the long term.
And then other avenues, I mean platforms, lead platforms, so guides for brides hitched places like that pop top and those kinds of places are quite good for my line of work on the magic side. But I’d say the biggest thing is probably the website obviously itself and ads and things like that, but actually speaking with other people.
So whether that’s continuous networking without having an agenda and just go into local networking events, you’ve got this one I go to in a restaurant called Nuovo with Brian Wrigley, which I highly recommend. If you’re listening, Brian, you’ve got the buzz networks and things like that.
But it’s just about talking with people so they know who you are, what you do and why you do it. So they can recommend you giving back to them first as well before they give to you. So thinking how can I actually slot them into my network?
There’s so many people that I’ll book out for events before they’ve given me anything. And it’s the same with other magicians as well and other hosts and toastmasters.
If we can share work between us, it becomes so much easier because there’s enough work for all of us and by looking after each other, it’s what goes around comes around.
Becca
00:20:19.620 – 00:20:56.640
Yeah, absolutely.
It’s interesting that you say that because I’m writing a stage talk that I’m delivering in October right now, all about how we need to go back to the basics and remember to do word of mouth marketing and networking. Because as you said, social media is a full time job.
It’s exhausting and yes, we need to be doing it and yes, we need to put ourselves out there, but often we can get work and more frequent work from these other avenues, which are slightly less time consuming. Yes, we have to put ourselves out there. Yes, we have to leave our home or not just sit in front of a screen.
But actually we need to get back to a little bit of that. So it’s interesting to hear that’s working for you. You said your website. I’m guessing a lot of that’s down to SEO people finding you.
Do you also have paid ads?
Oliver
00:20:56.720 – 00:21:51.080
So I generally haven’t been doing Google Ads. I did it very early in my career and I found it as a very expensive way. I did get bookings from it, but it was kind of like level pegging.
It wasn’t sort of very profitable. That’s probably because of a lack of knowledge and realizing what actually wanted to read at the time.
Facebook ads, I found them very good on Meta, but again, very difficult. Quite a costly sort of hole to go down if you don’t know what you’re doing.
But just wanted to add on that networking part that you said, with speaking to people, you never know who you’re talking to. That’s something I’ve always really found. So at most events I do, somebody will say to me, oh, you’re a magician.
How long have you been doing that for? How did you get into magic? How do you do this? I think it’s really rude if I then don’t go, oh, what about you? What do you do?
And I think a lot of people don’t actually ask that question, but it might be that he says, oh, yeah, I’m a plumber or whatever. Oh, perfect. I know someone that’s getting a new kitchen done or bathroom and whatever.
Send them some work, they’re going to remember you as that magician. So much more than the singing waiter or the whoever that’s come in and hasn’t even bothered to chat with them afterwards.
Becca
00:21:51.160 – 00:22:22.170
Yeah, that’s so right.
And also I often say, not judging them for whatever they say, because often you go to a networking someone says, I’m a plumber, and that person’s like, well, I don’t need any plumbing. I’m not bothered about building that relationship.
But what they don’t know is that their daughter’s getting married or their best friend is, you know, the CEO of some massive company that needs a magician for their next Christmas party. And. And I think sometimes people jump into that judgment and think, oh, there’s nothing in this for me, and then are rude, essentially.
They don’t ask anything back or they walk away. Have you ever been At a network event where someone just walks away after you tell them what you do.
Oliver
00:22:22.170 – 00:22:40.730
I had a. I had a networking event where someone said, oh, what is it you do? Then I said, I’m a magician and host. And he went, you look a bit young to have done that. Have you actually had any clients?
And I just thought, yeah, okay. It’s just that you never know who you’re talking to. I probably could have given that person quite a lot of what work. But, yeah, you never know.
Becca
00:22:40.730 – 00:23:19.430
Absolutely, absolutely. It’s so true. And I see it all of the time at networking events. It doesn’t take much to be a good networker.
Just a little bit of listening and a little bit of giving people some time of day. And like you said earlier, giving before you expect to receive. And it can be incredibly powerful.
Now, from the consumer side of things, I’d also be really interested to hear about your experience on the ground chatting to consumers, particularly wedding clients. I’ve been talking a lot on the podcast on stage about how consumer attitudes are starting to change.
The way people buy is starting to change on the the ground. What are you seeing is going on? Are you finding that you’re getting more ghosting? Are people talking to you? Do people want prices?
What’s going on in your will?
Oliver
00:23:19.430 – 00:25:02.070
I think the first thing is the platform that people reach out to me on. If they reach out on Instagram or WhatsApp or via email, that’s kind of where they want to be.
So trying to convert them all onto email or all onto the phone, it doesn’t really work as I thought it probably would, particularly on the phone with Gen Z, that they don’t want to chat on the phone, but they’re quite happy to reply to a text. But then equally you get some people, perhaps the older generation, perhaps not people are different who actually, they want to speak on the phone.
I’ve spoken to some clients, they go, you’re the only one who’s actually answered the phone. And it’s kind of getting that balance of reading a customer of, right, do they want to chat on the phone? Is that the way to push them?
Do they not want to chat on the phone? Do they want to stay on social media? How can you actually get that person over the line?
There’s another client I’m working with at the moment who it’s for her daughter’s wedding and she said that I’m the only magician who’s actually got any video areas of my performance and the vibe. So I’m actually booked and I’M trying to book another magician in and just. I can’t get the vibe.
So I think it’s working out what’s actually important to them to see rather than what we think is important. So almost having like a mystery shopper has been really helpful to find out those kind of gaps.
And in terms of other trends, I’d say that the time it takes for somebody to make a booking has really changed.
So although everything is readily available that you can find, find out pictures, pricing information, whatever, instantly with AI or on, you can search on TikTok and everything comes up, or Instagram, people have got too much information now that they actually take a lot longer because they can compare it to so many things rather than just, oh, there’s one come up here, we’ll have a look at him. And that’s where I’ve found that it’s really important to keep in touch for a longer period.
I speak with some of my couples, probably for, I want to say, even up to a year, if not longer, and then sometimes they, oh, yeah, we’re ready to put now. Whereas if I’d have just sent them one, two emails, that’s probably it.
Becca
00:25:02.070 – 00:26:06.990
Yeah, it’s so true. We see that in all aspects of life. I. I’m definitely seeing it in my own life, is that life is generally overwhelming.
There’s so much information being thrown at us. And so you do feel like, oh, I need to sit down and compare the.
I know if we’re going on holiday, here’s 25 different hotels, I need to sit down, I need to compare, I need to work out the prices. Oh, I need to do that when I have time. I never have time. And so it does extend on and on and on.
And so we can see why that’s happening, our couples as well. Because if it’s happening in every aspect of our lives, of course it’s happening in their wedding planning. They’ve. They’ve gone from.
I have to say, they’ve gone from being able to just find the magician or whoever that works and lives down the road to the entire world, because the entire world of magicians is at their fingertips on TikTok. They’re being bombarded with people. And so, of course it’s going to take them some time to work out how on earth they decide who to go with.
But as you said, what you do in that time, keeping in touch with them, regularly touching base, having automated emails, whatever it is, can make a big difference, because I’m sure you’ve met people that then disappear and come back and book you later.
Oliver
00:26:07.070 – 00:26:38.710
And I think also it’s about being visible.
So while you might be visible on the email they’ve sent you once or the DM, they’ve messaged you on WhatsApp or whatever, it’s, can they see you on Facebook, can they see you on Instagram? Are you on every single lead platform going, is your website there? Are you popping up on their ads, on their TikTok or on the WhatsApp stories?
The more kind of touch points that you can have with somebody, I really think makes a difference in them remembering who you, you are. Because otherwise they go on to the next platform and they’ve seen 10 other options, you’re not there.
Whereas if you’re in every single one, they start to think, oh, he must be all right, he’s, he’s everywhere.
Becca
00:26:38.710 – 00:27:19.250
Yeah, that is so true as well. And again, I think it’s hard being on social media. It’s hard putting that content out there and sometimes you feel like you’re talking to no one.
But as I often say, those little numbers are actually genuine people.
And even if that number’s hundred people saw this reel, that’s still a hundred individuals of people who are watching you and potentially engaging with you or just deciding, still part of the decision process about whether or not they want to work with you. So it is hard and it is time consuming, but absolutely well worth it.
Okay, let’s think about some of the highs and some of the lows so far in your career. Tell me what’s been the best thing that’s happened to you or a high a memory. Since working as a magician, I’d probably.
Oliver
00:27:19.250 – 00:28:09.350
Start with the Magic Circle. Obviously that’s a huge achievement.
So I’m a member of the Magic Circle Circle in terms of performance, probably at the Victoria Warehouse in Manchester. So I did a show for a thousand seat audience which was, yeah, really nerve wracking.
Especially when literally a minute before I went on stage, they said, oh, can you just open the awards ceremony as well? I was like, yeah, because I never say no. Which is probably something I’ve learned along the way as well. Maybe say no sometimes.
But in the wedding industry, probably my biggest achievement is hosting somebody’s day for the first time as that toastmaster, doing the full shebang, the all bells and whistles. And to have the feedback of Odd day couldn’t have happened without you. You were the glue that held it all together.
Everyone’s talking about you, just that kind of feedback of going, wow, I’ve just smashed Making somebody’s best day of their life become possible. And that’s probably the most rewarding thing ever, to be honest.
Becca
00:28:09.590 – 00:28:21.110
Love that. The magic circle, then, just very briefly, because I’m sure people will want to understand it. So do you apply? Do you audition? How does it.
How do you become a member of this exclusive club? Or do you have to be invited?
Oliver
00:28:21.270 – 00:28:44.610
Yeah, so you have to have somebody that’s going to sort of commend you, if you like. So people, members already.
You basically have a membership that when you obviously have passed your exam and everything, that you can then recommend somebody and you have to get. I think it’s two members to sort of commend you to be able to get any further.
But the best step, if you want to get into magic, is those local magic clubs. I would say definitely sort of the. The introductory route for sure.
Becca
00:28:44.610 – 00:29:02.430
Fantastic. Okay, talk about some of the lows then, because I’m sure that it hasn’t all been plain sailing in business.
This conversation has been incredibly positive, which I love. But the reality is there’ll be people listening to this that are struggling with a whole variety of things. Things at the moment.
If you look back over your business journey, are there any points where you think it was really hard at that time?
Oliver
00:29:02.510 – 00:30:19.880
Yeah, probably about four weeks ago when I broke my elbow in two places, which meant I couldn’t drive to my gigs and I couldn’t perform close at magic anymore because I couldn’t hold a deck of cards or any of the props that I needed. So that’s probably been one of the hardest bits of my career so far, to be honest.
But luckily I’m back working now, so if any of my couples hear this, don’t worry, we’re all good.
But yeah, that was probably the most telling time as well, where I was so grateful for the work I’d put into my business beforehand to be able to deal with inquiries, still make sure everything was flowing smoothly as if nothing had ever happened.
But also where I was so thankful that I had that knowledge of my competition so I could reach out to magicians knowing 100% they were going to be the right fit to step in and cover me. And also knowing that nobody was going to let me down, knowing exactly the day inside and out.
It’s not like I’ve prepared for this wedding and only got a couple of bits old. I think the bride and groom are called this. He go.
I had pages and pages of exactly how they met, their story, the timings, the name of all their bridal party the songs, they wanted to come into literally everything, step by step. So I could jump on a call with each of my magicians and hosts and say, this is exactly how it needs to be. And they all got five star reviews. Glowing.
And it was like. It was just, yeah, brilliant. I couldn’t have asked for anything better. There was no, no issues whatsoever.
But that wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t put in the legwork beforehand.
Becca
00:30:19.880 – 00:30:39.860
And it’s those kind of things that people don’t often think about because you don’t think, oh, what’s going to happen if it goes wrong, if I get sick, if this happens, if breakdown. Often we don’t think about those things until the moment.
And so the fact that you had put so much time and energy into your systems, into having that network of people is what essentially got you through that time. How did you break your elbow in two places?
Oliver
00:30:39.860 – 00:30:51.020
I was coming out of a venue and there was a chain between two bollards, which was sort of ankle height and there were no street lamps. So I kind of just walked through it and fell splat onto the concrete. So.
Becca
00:30:51.020 – 00:30:51.740
Oh, no.
Oliver
00:30:51.900 – 00:30:54.780
Or I was. I was fighting a grizzly bear. If anyone wants to share the story.
Becca
00:30:55.260 – 00:31:02.360
Yeah, that sounds like a much more exciting version of the story than happened. Was it after you’d done the gig, was it the end or was it at the start?
Oliver
00:31:02.360 – 00:31:12.200
Yeah, it was at the end. So, like I say it was. It was just dark coming out of a venue and, yeah, just walk and splat. So, yeah, nice.
Six hours in A and E. That wasn’t, wasn’t fun.
Becca
00:31:12.920 – 00:31:16.440
Not ideal. But you’re through it and you’re back working, which is the main thing.
Oliver
00:31:16.440 – 00:31:17.080
Good to go.
Becca
00:31:17.320 – 00:31:31.050
But it does make you realize how vulnerable we are actually as business owners when we are the, you know, front and center of the business. We are invaluable. Our health is incredibly important and actually, we do need to have those backup plans in, in place. Oh, sorry. Go for it.
Oliver
00:31:31.050 – 00:31:55.890
Sorry. I was just going to say that that’s where it’s really important as well.
When you’re looking at a supplier, it’s not just, why are they £100 and why are they more expensive? It’s kind of looking at it from like a deeper level. How much experience have they got? How long have they been doing it for?
Have they got that network of magicians that they can then book into an event? If it’s the venue, have they got the staff to cover it if. If somebody’s off sick and that it’s looking deeper than what is just the service.
But actually what if, what if and what, what if?
Becca
00:31:56.050 – 00:32:36.270
And that’s why just booking the cheapest is definitely not the right option. And that’s why we should be able to charge our worth.
Because we know that if you’ve done all that work and you’ve got all those connections, you are more valuable than someone who’s just rocked up one day and decided to go and do some tricks.
Now, one of the things you mentioned earlier was corporate work and I want to touch on this briefly because I know there will again be people listening that think, oh, I only do weddings at the moment, but actually with my type of business I could do some stuff in corporate but that feels a bit scary. I don’t know how to go about it. It’s a very different beast to working with a wedding coup. Have you gained some of your corporate gigs?
Has it been through word of mouth? Has it been through proactively approaching companies? Explain that to us.
Oliver
00:32:36.270 – 00:33:34.690
I think the first thing is my background is in cold calling. So when I was in asset finance I was doing 200 phone calls a day. So I’m very used to rejection.
And that’s kind of where you have to have a bit of thick skin in that industry. You are going to get no’s. You are going to get people who think, oh, why would you want a tacky magician at our high end call corporate event?
It’s only when people sort of realize what’s actually the value in it. So that’s kind of the first thing is have thick skin. But the second thing I think is just be relentless with it.
Just find companies that are having events reach out to them. People generally aren’t as scary as you think either. They’re probably looking for something and need something. It’s just a case of finding them.
And the other thing is don’t be worried that there’s not enough work because there is enough work. Whether that’s in the wedding industry, the corporate market, there’s enough work out there. You just have to create the work.
Sometimes I can’t tell you how many times I’ve spoken to a client and they’ve gone, we didn’t even think about having a magician. That’s a great idea. They were never going to go on to Google and Google me because they’d never thought of it.
So if you put yourself out there, you create more opportunities.
Becca
00:33:34.770 – 00:33:42.290
And do you do that by picking up the phone or do you send an email? Because again, there’ll be people listening to this. That. Think that sounds easy, but it also sounds incredibly scary.
Oliver
00:33:42.450 – 00:34:28.360
Yeah, I pick up the phone, I also send out emails or, like I say, message on. On social media, depending on what avenue is, it might be that a LinkedIn connection request is the way to go.
But it’s all about just having a small target and working through that.
So if you’re thinking, there’s no way I’m going to do 200 phone calls a day, which is ridiculous, and I wouldn’t advise it because the quality just drops. But if you can do 50 and you’re thinking, actually, that’s too many, what about 30? What about 20?
And get to a number where you go, actually, do you know what? Yeah, I probably could do five calls a day and then work it into. I can do five calls an hour. And you’ve just got to kind of break up the business.
So you’re not always doing sales. You’re still doing your marketing, your social media, your customer service. You’re the this and that.
But you just got to delegate a bit of time each day to push in that industry and that’s how you can sort of tap into it.
Becca
00:34:28.360 – 00:35:08.100
Yeah, I think it’s about being proactive rather than reactive. And almost all of the people that I do strategy sessions with are always reactive. Oh, nothing’s coming in. I’m not getting the inquiries.
And when I ask them, well, what are you doing proactively to get that work? The answer is often, not a lot. Posting on social media, you know, actually.
But when we work in a corporate job, as you know from your own background, especially if you’re in sales of some kind, you have that sales manager that you have to go to, and they say, why haven’t you hit your target? And then you have to say, well, this is all of the things I’ve done proactively to try and hit my target.
And if you sat there and went, nothing, really, just a few posts on social media, you wouldn’t get away with it. But yet in our own businesses, sometimes it’s easy for us to slip into that.
Oliver
00:35:08.180 – 00:35:25.660
There’s that analogy of what makes the boat go faster, and that’s something I’ve always kind of stuck by. Is what is doing an Instagram post going to make that boat go faster? Is that going to create more revenue for my business?
If it’s not, should it be the thing I’m focusing on my time on. So always ask yourself that question. Is it going to make the boat go faster Analogy.
Becca
00:35:25.660 – 00:35:53.620
I’ve not heard that one before. That will stay in my brain forevermore. I love her. Okay, couple of more questions before I let you go.
One thing that, again, I love to talk to people about, especially when they’ve been a bit more established in business, is mistakes that they maybe see other people making. So I don’t know if you’ve had experience of other new magicians coming into the market.
Toastmasters, Celebrants, you know, anyone like that that’s chatted to you. What are some of the mistakes you see people making in those early days? And you think, no, don’t do that.
Oliver
00:35:54.100 – 00:37:57.440
I could go on and on, but I’ll try and keep it brief. The first thing is price. As I said earlier, somebody’s going out for 50 quid, somebody’s going out for a couple of thousand.
There’s got to be a difference there. And as a consumer, you look at that and go, well, why on earth is that so much more expensive than that? And I think you really need to show that.
And also, remember, from a business to be profitable, if you’re going out the door for 50 quid, let’s say it’s in London. So this is a true story. I lost an event the other day in London for, I think it was £110. What’s the job? They’re driving in from London.
So you’ve got a tank of fuel, you’ve then got your congestion charge, your Ulez. You’ve then got to find parking in central London.
You’ve then got to do three hours of work and then all of the bits to get home and possibly food as well. Maybe your playing cards, your supplies. You’re not going to be profitable after that point.
So that’s the first thing I’d say is work out your costs because, a, it’s confusing for a consumer, but also you’re not making money, so you’re. You’re actually damaging the market. Because also word of mouth comes from that, oh, magicians, only 100 quid.
And that’s kind of how that sort of spirals. But then on the other side, I’d say credibility is something a lot of people lack. Like, how do I know you’re any good? Where are your reviews?
Where are your previous clients? Where are your photos? There’s a lot of magicians I see, particularly who aren’t in their photos.
So there’s just a picture of a crowd going, yeah, it’s like, what are they? Yeah, about. There’s no magician in the picture. Um, and it’s the same with other people as well. Like Cake makers. There’s loads of pictures of cake.
But personally, if I was going to buy a cake for my wedding, I wouldn’t just buy a cake, I’d want to see who’s made that cake, see whether I like the look of them, if I trust them, if they seem credible, if they jump on a phone with me, do I think they’re going to be there on time, are they going to be late? It’s all of those kind of bits that it’s more than just the cakes for me, it’s more than just the magic.
I know I’m going to go to an event, I’m going to chat with them, have banter with them and people get that vibe speaking to me on the phone. We’re going to have a good time either way and we sort of get that trust.
Whereas someone rocking up in a polka dot waistcoat and doing a few tricks is really awkward and gets nervous about going to the group. You don’t know that. So just getting that credibility and personal touch across.
Becca
00:37:57.680 – 00:38:51.530
Yeah, really both of those really good tips.
And I think especially when it comes to the costs, even once you’ve worked out the costs of getting into London and all of those things, people then forget the overheads, the tax, the website, the, you know, the marketing budget that all of those things that go into it.
And that’s why cheap businesses don’t tend to last very long because people realize, wait a minute, it’s actually costing me money to run my business. So, yeah, absolutely.
If you’re listening to this and you’re thinking maybe I’m a bit cheap, do that exercise that I do with my one to one clients and my business builder clients, where you go through the spreadsheets and make sure you put in all the details, put all your costs in, put in your income and work out that you’re going to be profitable because otherwise you’re just being a busy fool. It’s really important that you think about your numbers and pay attention to it, for sure. Ollie, I’ve loved chatting to you.
It’s been such an interesting conversation. I always end podcast with the same question. So I’m going to pose that to you now. And it’s this.
What’s one thing you personally wish you’d known sooner in your own business?
Oliver
00:38:51.690 – 00:39:21.030
Tricky question.
I’d say the biggest thing I’ve learned is that you need to show couples the real value that you bring and how that is different from the other suppliers around you. And then also remember that the 1% improvements on the business do stack up.
So when you’re sat there thinking, I’ve been doing this for days and I’m not making any progress, that’s the 10,000 pound an hour job. When you’ve done it, you’ve done it. And those 1%, when you stack them all up, really, really help to make you a better business.
You personally, but also for your consumer or couple to have a better experience.
Becca
00:39:21.990 – 00:39:31.430
Really, really great advice, Ollie. It’s been so much fun.
If people want to find out more about you, about your business or even see some of your tricks, where’s the best place for them to find you?
Oliver
00:39:31.430 – 00:39:43.750
So they can visit my website, which is revilotwistmagic.co.uk or my Instagram, Facebook. Anything basically is revilotwistmagic and that’s Oliver backwards. R E V I L O twistmagic.
Becca
00:39:43.990 – 00:39:51.210
And I will make sure I put all of the links in the show notes. If people wanna reach out and chat to you to getting messages. Are you open to chatting to people on dm?
Oliver
00:39:51.210 – 00:40:02.170
Absolutely. And it doesn’t just have to be to make a booking.
If anyone wants to chat about weddings, corporate, anything related to the industry at all, or questions about joining the Magic Circle and things like that, please just pop me a message. Always happy to chat.
Becca
00:40:02.170 – 00:40:11.610
Fabulous. Thank you so much.
I hope to see you at another event soon and hopefully doing some magic so I can see some of your tricks up close for myself because I do love a bit of magic.
Oliver
00:40:11.610 – 00:40:12.970
Thank you so much for having me, Becca.
Becca
00:40:12.970 – 00:40:42.560
Absolute pleasure. Such a great conversation. I could have talked about all of these secret magic things for days, but that wouldn’t have helped your business.
Hopefully you enjoyed today’s episode. I think there was some really interesting points there. I love what Ed Sheeran said about quitting your job and going to follow your dream.
And I love that thing about is that making your boat go faster. That’s definitely one for some of you to ponder. Hopefully you’ve got a lot out of this episode. If you need anything else, do reach out to Ollie.
I’m sure he’d love to chat with you and I’ll see you all next time.
0 Comments