Show notes:
Want to know the mistakes wedding venues are making? Shannon Tarrant is here to help. With 20 years experience in the wedding industry and running her businesses The Venue Help desk and Wedding Venue Map, Shannon has seen it all! We talk about mistakes venues are making, but also about how wedding pros can work better with venues, and avoid begging to be on the recommended supplier list.
Time Stamps:
00:11 – Introduction to Wedding Business Marketing
09:07 – Navigating the Wedding Venue Landscape
15:51 – The Vendor-Venue Dynamic
26:27 – Engaging with Vendors: Strategies for Venues
Transcript:
Shannon
00:00:00.160 – 00:00:11.672
I think many venues make mistakes when it comes to SEO search engine optimization. I think they have to get found on Google in ways that, you know, maybe some other categories don’t.
Becca
00:00:11.736 – 00:00:58.380
I’m Becca Poutney, Wedding business marketing expert, speaker and blogger, and you’re listening to the Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow podcast. I’m here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
If if you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you love, then you’re in the right place. Let’s get going with today’s episode. Today I’m chatting with Shannon Tarrant, co founder of the Venue Help Desk and Wedding venue map.
With 20 years experience in the wedding industry, she now loves to work with venues as a consultant and educator as well as running her two business websites. We met briefly in person in Vegas last year, but I’m really looking forward to finding out more from her today. Shannon, welcome to the podcast.
Shannon
00:00:58.720 – 00:01:00.260
Excited to be here.
Becca
00:01:00.880 – 00:01:42.742
I’m so excited to have you.
We were just talking for a couple of minutes before we started hitting record and I just know that we’re going to get on like a house on fire because I think we have a similar ethos and I just can’t believe it’s taken us this long to get together and chat. So I’m really looking forward to going deep in the podcast today.
I know you’re very honest and you’re going to say it like it is and that’s right up my street. So my listeners are going to love you.
We are going to talk all things venues today, but before we get there, I always like to give a bit of background on my guests because I want people to know who they’re listening to, who they’re learning from.
So just explain to everyone who’s listening a little bit more about how you got into the wedding industry in the first place and a bit of your experience that’s led you to where you are today.
Shannon
00:01:42.846 – 00:03:14.100
I’ve been in the industry just about 20 years, so I started in off site catering where I got the opportunity to jump in and out of venues all over Central Florida where I’m from, and really started to fall in love with all the different spaces and uniqueness and things you could kind of manipulate when you go into a new space. After that I moved into venue management itself at this amazing family owned resort where I got to learn the hotel side a lot More food and beverage.
And, you know, after 10 years, I just got sick of brides.
Like, long story short, I had had enough of them and realized there was this amazing space where, you know, as major national directories, you know, we’re changing their algorithms in the way they did things. There wasn’t really a space for local couples looking to find every venue that existed in the market. And so I built Wedding Venue Map.
And in that time, I got to work with so many amazing venues, realizing that they really needed so much support.
So connected with Ian Ramirez, who has been on the podcast before, and Paul Petty, and we started to develop Venue Help Desk, which is really that space to provide heavier sales support for venues and connecting them to amazing, trusted helpers that we love to work with. So been in it a long time. I live in a crazy space right now in between the couples planning their wedding and the businesses.
So it’s cool because I kind of get to hear both sides, but I’m not selling to the couples, so I think they’re a little more honest with me like you are with your listeners.
Becca
00:03:14.260 – 00:03:35.624
Love it. So I’m sure there’s other people that can resonate with that feeling as well about feeling sick of brides.
But let’s go back to that period of your life before you were feeling sick of the couples and you were working inside the industry, you were working in venues. What are some of the lessons you learned during that time when you were working in venues?
Things that you now look back on and think, yeah, I learned a lot doing that.
Shannon
00:03:35.712 – 00:04:47.664
Yeah. You know, I had an amazing owner of the resort who really invested in growing me and, like, developing me.
So he taught me a few things that I still use, like, every day of my life. And one of that is paying attention to the pace, like, you’re booking pace and what’s coming down the line.
And, you know, venue space is like a hotel room. If you don’t sell it on that date, the inventory just gets lit on fire. It’s gone.
And so really taught me how to start looking ahead towards dates and holes and where are you discounting or doing value adds to really, you know, fill that time so it doesn’t just sit empty. So that’s probably like, one of the best skills of being able to look far forward into the, you know, holes and spaces.
And then the other is really, like, outside the box, marketing, thinking creatively in different spaces, hosting PR events.
We did for our 50th anniversary at the resort, I did 50 couples who had been married more than 50 years and did a giant vow renewal which was so much fun. So, yeah, I mean, I think it was really awesome.
Creative marketing, like things that just no one else was doing and tracking my pace, those are my two skill sets that I use still all the time.
Becca
00:04:47.752 – 00:05:29.312
Fantastic. And to be honest, they’re both things that all venues and suppliers should be paying attention to, not just in the venue space.
Because actually I think a lot of people live in the moment, especially small business owners, and they’re not doing that thing where they look ahead and looking where the gaps are or thinking about how they can fill the gaps. They’re reactive rather than proactive. So absolutely agree with you. I think there’s some great lessons there.
Now, you work with a lot of venues and I know that you’re going to be very honest about this and I would love you to share some of the venue mistakes.
You see people making people in the venue space, you don’t have to name any names, but are there common things that you see venues doing and you think, oh please stop doing that.
Shannon
00:05:29.416 – 00:06:28.616
Oh God, the list is so long. That’s terrible. You know, I think that marketing is probably the biggest piece.
You know, venues are top of funnel of all wedding suppliers and vendors in the industry. And so I think just trying to only do what everyone else is doing doesn’t always set the tone.
You know, I think many venues make mistakes when it comes to SEO, search engine optimization. I think they have to get found on Google in ways that, you know, maybe some other categories don’t.
And the other like huge mistake I think is lack of attention and focus on Instagram.
The two biggest, you know, with wedding venue map we survey our couples every year and the two biggest areas that they are still searching to find their venues are crazy keywords you would never expect over on Google. And then really looking through Instagram, going down that Rabbit hol, you know, to find unique venue spaces.
Becca
00:06:28.728 – 00:07:10.340
And I think Google is massively underrated at the moment in the industry.
I think people have been distracted by everything else and they’re so focused on, oh, I need lots of people on social media, I need to do great TikToks, I need to have this shiny new website or update my venue.
But they’re forgetting that most people still are going to Google and if they’re not going to Google in 2025, they are going to ChatGPT and searching on there, which is the same ethos. And so absolutely, I’m with you. Venues and school supplies again, need to pay more attention to Google. I Love Sarah from Sarah does SEO.
She does great stuff. Love her. She’s on the podcast here. So if you’re listening and you need SEO, absolutely. Go to her. Do you like Sarah too?
Shannon
00:07:10.380 – 00:08:28.226
Yeah, I do. You know, here’s the thing about what Sarah teaches.
It makes so much sense is of course people are chasing the same keywords like London wedding venue or you know, such and such wedding castle or whatever. But it’s the like unique, specific word. So last year she was teaching how Tuscan wedding venues was popping, right?
Like people wanted to get married in Italy. So I wrote a blog post on wedding venue map that was like Italian themed wedding venues in Orlando.
That blog post first we rank in spot one over all of the Tuscan looking venues. Like I outrank them all and it’s getting like 800 hits a month on that one blog post.
So if I was a Tuscan wedding venue in Orlando, I would, I would SEO pages on my site.
So hard to rank for that because it’s getting so many, so much search volume that yeah, no kudos to Sarah because you know, really leaning in on what’s trending in terms of the search that isn’t the generic words that you would think, like digging deeper as to where what’s your specialty, what makes you unique and different. The venue I worked at had a waterfall. I mean in Orlando, it doesn’t make any sense, but we had a waterfall.
But I had a blog post about it and it would get found all the time because you never know.
Becca
00:08:28.298 – 00:09:07.166
Smart. It’s so smart. And again, if you’re listening to this and you’re not paying attention to this, you’re missing out on a massive gap in your marketing.
So 100% go away and look at it now. We were talking before we started about how I’ve been changing the way I talk about marketing in 2020.
I think that we’ve seen a huge shift in the way consumer habits are happening in the world, the way people are marketing. And I coined it the marketing theme park.
And I just wondered what you see going on out there yourself, especially in the venue space, especially out in the States and in Florida where you are, where do you think venues are seeing this happen? What are the big challenges you see them facing this year?
Shannon
00:09:07.238 – 00:10:51.402
Yeah, I, I really believe in my heart that it is the same across the world no matter where you are, that couples are overwhelmed, they don’t know where to start.
You know, I do about 20 wedding shows a year where I’m having one on one conversations with couples searching for a Venue this year has been the hardest it’s ever been because, see, we asked them questions to curate a list of local venues to be able to say, what are you looking for and what’s your style and how many guests? And they know nothing. Like, they are so lost they don’t know where to start.
And so, you know, the frustration as a venue, especially if you’ve been in it a long time and the booking process was different and faster and simpler to how elongated it is that the venues that are simplifying the process, making it so easy, basic, and transparent. You know a lot of things. I listened to your podcast episode. If you guys have not listened to that episode about the theme park, you are missing out.
And you. I realized that how significant that concept is. In a way, you painted the picture that you really have to check.
You don’t have to be in all the places and all the spaces doing all the things, but you have to check the boxes enough in the spaces and do it well. Instead of doing a lot, do it better to be able to make the process more simplified for couples.
So I wish more venues would utilize things like quizzes on their website, like, are we the right venue for you? Yes. No. Like, make them make choices to walk them down. But they’re not really.
They’re kind of same old, same old and expecting the same results from a different generation. And it is not working.
Becca
00:10:51.506 – 00:12:02.940
Yeah, it absolutely isn’t. People are having to catch up, I think, especially when it comes to the technology.
I mean, I met with a venue just this week, and they were talking about how they’re still doing everything on an Excel spreadsheet and there’s no automation. I’m like, you are not going to keep up. Because today’s generation want everything and they want it now.
And I did a competitor analysis for them against their competitors, and I inquired with all of them about a brochure request at the same time. And, you know, every venue sent me something immediately, but their venue, it took three hours. And I’m like, three hours later.
You’re now like, email six in my inbox. You have not got a chance. Because I’ve already gone on to those other emails. We have to utilize technology. We have to play the game.
And I think venues also are still making things really complicated.
I don’t know if you see this where they’re like, oh, all they have to do is fill in this form and then we send them an email back, and then they have to answer 25 questions and then they have to send it back and then we have to have a call with them. And I’m like, they are not going to do this.
I was like, my children understand how to go on the Internet and buy a pair of trainers on the Internet and make it come the next day at age 8. That is the consumer that’s coming if they can’t. Like, they’re not expecting to fill in 25 forms to get something.
They want it, they want the answer and they want it now. Are you still seeing venues doing this crazy process?
Shannon
00:12:03.060 – 00:14:14.458
It is. And you know, my partners at Venue Help Desk own a venue in Texas called Madera Estates and we joke around and say Madeira is the laboratory.
Every idea we crazy idea we have and we want to test it out. We’re like, well, let’s implement it in Madeira and see if it works before we teach it.
And you know, their venue is an all inclusive venue, which I don’t know about over in the UK but in the US is popping like, we have 500 venues in Central Florida. Only 50 of them offer all inclusive and all 50 of those are booked solid. Because the concept is the couple comes.
They do also offer venue rental only. You can go rent just the venue or you can get the whole kit and caboodle. And it’s wild to see the ones that have made the process so simple and easy.
But, you know, at Madeira, they have an all inclusive, but they’re more on the luxury side. Like it’s expensive. Like their packages are 35 to 45,000, like walking in the door.
And so, you know, we’ve tried to manipulate a little bit, at least the concept of downloading the pricing guide, because when you’re on the higher cost side, but they are pricing transparent. That page at the top was like, here’s the range of you know what, what it’s going to cost, you fill in.
But it’s only like five or six, five or six fields. And one of them is a secret tip.
If you’re a venue you should be implementing and you can go see on Madeira, one of them is a specific question about where are you at in the planning journey? Because what we found is there’s so many couples requesting information when they’re like not yet engaged, like almost engaged.
Like, she knows the ring is sitting somewhere in that house, but she has. He hasn’t asked yet. And they start researching or they got engaged yesterday.
When I worked at a venue, I love those Christmas day, I’d get 20 leads that hadn’t done anything yet, but they just got engaged. So having A dropdown that asks, asks, at what stage are you at? You know, are you not yet engaged? Recently engaged in gathering info.
Ready, you know, ready to start touring? I’m in love with Madeira and I can’t wait to come see it. Really starting to pre qualify with the form.
Instead of asking them too much stuff, you know, too much information that they might not know. Just utilizing those things to pre qualify a little bit, but not like 50 fields. No one wants to fill that out.
And on your phone, which is what they’re all using, it’s the word.
Becca
00:14:14.584 – 00:14:37.862
Yeah, it is the worst. And if your phone is not, like, if your website is not mobile optimized, like, where are you? And again, another frustration.
I see this particularly with venues with like, well, we spent loads of money on our website five years ago. I’m like, well, that’s fine, but it does not work today. And I am not zooming in like a hundred times trying to fill out tidy form. So make it work.
Put some money in, because you are leaving money on the table.
Shannon
00:14:37.926 – 00:15:01.628
Do you think. I know marketing is your specialty. Do you think they also make this mistake in the PDFs they send?
Because I think a lot of times people send PDFs with like, like font 12. And on my phone, I’d rather have three more pages if you need to cover that. That the font is bigger and I.
The pictures are bigger because I’m not gonna squeeze it up and squeeze it down. That’s another huge. Every vendor does that. Like, not just venues. They all do that a hundred percent.
Becca
00:15:01.684 – 00:16:57.786
I’m like, too much text. I’m not gonna read it because that’s, unfortunately, that is the way we’re going.
And we are all as bad as each other because we can go, oh, today’s generation, they can’t be bothered to read. I don’t read exactly as people say to me. Did you see that in the email? And I was like, oh, I didn’t read the email.
I only just skimmed it, scanned through it. And someone was telling me yesterday, I don’t know if you’ve seen this yet on the new iPhone.
Now, in an email, you can hit a button and it just gives you the short version of the email. And so you don’t even have to read the email. It just kind of paraphrases it. And I was like, that is changing the game.
And that’s why all of our emails, all of our text, it has to be shortened to the point because we are lazy and we don’t want to read. So, yeah, I am with you. PDFs, everything on your website, Less is more. And also make sure we could read it on a phone.
Okay, well, we’ll leave that high horse because I could talk about that all day long. Because I really want to talk to you about the vendor venue dynamic.
I know this is something you enjoy talking about, and I know it’s something that my listeners really like hearing about as well, because especially here in the uk, and I’m sure it’s the same in the US as well as vendors generically, photographers, florists, cake makers, we see the venues as like the top dog. They have the power to send people our direction. And so there can be a feeling of, I just need to get on a vendor list.
I really want to get on these vendor lists, but I don’t know how to do it. And I loved it when we were talking backwards and forwards about what you’re going to talk about today and your special specialities.
The phrase that you use was how to stop begging for referrals and earn your spot. And I love that because it’s. It does feel like that sometimes. It feels like people are begging.
They’re sending out random emails saying, hey, can I be a recommended supplier? Which never works. So I’m hoping today you can share some tips with us. So let’s start then.
If you are the venue owner and you are looking for these kind of suppliers, what is it that you’re actually looking for? How are you choosing these people?
Shannon
00:16:57.858 – 00:19:46.340
Oh, this is so good. And one of the things that we teach and recommend for venues is to create a vendor application. The vendors hate me for this, but I love it.
So, you know, I think that all, you know, venues are busy just like you all are. And so when you reach out and you’re like, oh, how do I get on the list? And whatever, they really don’t want to delete your email.
But you don’t realize that they’re getting 10 of those a week and they don’t have time to do their own job, more or less try to help your business. So I think, you know, venues are on the hunt for people who, you know, go above and beyond meaning, like, they.
It’s not good enough that you provide a good service. It’s about being a good partner. Like, we’re dating in this relationship, right? Like, we’re, we’re in a relationship, we’re in this together.
And so making sure that you give more than you can take, you know, you don’t just take those referrals and take and Take and showing how do you give? So there’s easy ways you can do this. And this is part of what we teach our venues, how to evaluate.
When you post on Instagram and it’s a photo, do you location tag and tag the venue? Tag them in the image and location tag them.
We have a wedding planner in Central Florida who the venue’s entire Instagram is collaborative reels that she’s created, they just accept because she works there so much, she makes the content. They’re like, it’s like having a free social media manager. And so what are the things that you’re doing right? Tagging them and location tagging them.
So simple. If you’re making the content anyways, just do the little bit extra, right? So simple.
If you’re a photographer, videographer, it’s so easy when you’re curating and even when you’re like, oh, well, I share the image and is, I mean, go above and beyond and take the five to 10 whompers, like those whoa. Photos of that venue and just put them in a little sub. Put them in a little sub gallery for them so they don’t have to look through 800 images.
You know which ones are the ones that you really want them to share. Give them them all, but be like, here’s your like sneak peek wowzer gallery of images, right?
What are the things that you as a vendor can do that go above and beyond? They’re going to check your reviews. You know, on Becca’s theme park, she goes through the scream method. And the R in scream is reputation.
And you want venues to be referring you because they validate your reputation. But when they refer you, the couples don’t just blindly reach out. They’re going to go to your website, to your social media and go read your reviews.
And so if you’re not keeping those things fresh, current, clean, if you don’t have an easy to use website, you know, the pricing isn’t transparent. It the couples then go back to the venue to ask questions and they don’t want to deal with it, they just want to refer.
So those are a few really easy things that you can do just to start to set yourself apart from the pack.
Becca
00:19:46.420 – 00:20:09.712
And do you ever see venues not liking this? The only reason I ask is because I’m with you. I’m like, just do it and go above and beyond.
Make a real invite them to collaborate, write a blog post about how amazing the venue is and then tell them afterwards. And sometimes the pushback I get is, well, what if the venue doesn’t like it. What if I’m stepping on their toes?
What if they turn around and say, why have you done this about me? And I’m like, I don’t believe that happens. So I’m asking you, do you ever see that happen?
Shannon
00:20:09.816 – 00:21:23.188
No, I’ve never heard a venue come back and be like, I can’t believe that vendor blocked me. Like, unless you. I mean, once in my career I did this awful country camouflage neon orange hunting wedding.
Maybe I don’t want that one out there for all to see. But outside of that, you know, you creating marketing content for them.
If somebody were to say that to me, I’d say, then you have no idea the power of them helping to get the word out. Right? Like, that’s us all working as a community to share about our favorite vendors.
And so those are also the people who say comments like that who are like, I don’t want to follow up with my leads. I’m bothering them. Like, this isn’t.
You’ve got to be the best PR agent for your own business and for your own company and building those relationships, it takes time, right? It’s dating, it’s long term. So it’s a matter of the moment when I’ll have a venue text me and say, hey, I’m over these cake people on my list.
They’re late all the time. They. They don’t reply back to. The couples are complaining. Like, who have you got? Who’s the best of the best? Don’t think that.
They don’t go back in their brain and think, who’s been posting us? Who’s caked it? Who brought us a little cake to try for the holiday that we like. Oh, God, that cake was so good. Like, they remember.
I promise you they do.
Becca
00:21:23.244 – 00:22:00.896
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s so much better when you start doing those things rather than just reaching out cold with an email.
I also love the idea that you said about having the venue actually have an application for their preferred supplies. I think that’s really smart. I think it’s a great way for them to then keep them all in one place rather than have them all over the place.
And also, if you’re something that’s a bit different, maybe you’re not just another photographer. Maybe you have something really new and unique. I mean, I’ve got this client at the moment who’s got like inflatable nightclubs and things like that.
Then that’s a great way for venue to see something totally different and have it on their box for when they do have Someone come and say, do you know anyone with an inflatable nightclub? Oh, actually, yes, I do.
Shannon
00:22:00.968 – 00:22:47.952
And I think when you’re a unique category like that, the process can be a little bit different. Right. Like, I mean, we always joke and are like, I need an another photographer, like, I need a home ahead.
Like there’s so many in some of the categories.
But when you do something unique, creative, different, like we’ve got a lot of coffee carts that are popping up and we have a wedding venue map member artistic talent group that does like caricatures, but in like on the coolest, they do them on corks and on wood slices, on ornaments, like they do the coolest stuff.
It’s very easy when you’re in a unique category to get on the list if you just do the basics because most of the time they don’t have someone in your category.
And so it just takes that networking to build a relationship, you know, meeting them at an event or, you know, if you’re open to it, we can talk about the cold reach out on how to do it a little bit better.
Becca
00:22:48.056 – 00:23:07.132
Okay, absolutely. That was going to be my next question is because I think there is a point where maybe there is a reach out needed.
So maybe you are, maybe you are a photographer, maybe you are in an oversaturated category.
You’ve been tagging the venue, you’ve blocked the venue, done all of the things and now you’re thinking, right, I actually need to reach out to these people. So yes, please tell us about how we do the cold reach out better.
Shannon
00:23:07.236 – 00:25:07.602
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s really figuring out, you’re never going to ask, how do I get on the list? Like, that’s never going to be a part of the email. It’s really about an introduction. Think, what would your dating profile look like? Right?
What are you into? What do you like? You know, what makes you different and unique?
Why would someone choose to want to go on a date with me over all the other women in my category? Right. And so you’ve gotta really focus on what makes you different.
Recently I had an officiant and he sent me like a 30 second video that a videographer clipped for him at a wedding. And it was like this though, the like heartfelt sound of his voice of like how much he cared about this couple and telling their love story.
I was like, whoa, it was impactful. Right? So can you use the power of video? You know, can you. What can you put in that email? Short, we talked about it. Short, short, short.
That’s got impact, you know, something that really will set you apart. And so it’s that introduction. What does a venue want to know? What you do, what services you provide, who do you serve and what’s your price point?
That’s another like common when you’re maybe newer business or you’re maybe on the more affordable side, price point wise. I think in today’s market venues are also hunting for affordable vendors.
It’s not that they don’t love their tried and true, but they’ve got to get someone of quality in their pocket that the couples, the budget couples who don’t want to invest in a lot of money in photography, they want to have someone good. So if you are less expensive, put it in there, put it in the email when you do the reach out saying prices starting at X.
So they’re like, whoa, look at how good they’re working is, you know, and things like that. So make sure it’s. How do I get to your stuff the fastest? With easy links. Let me go look at this, this, this. Let me look at your portfolio.
Here’s our reviews. Like the things that would be in an application, but short, simple, make it punch and sound different and use Chat GPT.
Why are you people not cheating? Cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat. Use Chat GPT to help you and.
Becca
00:25:07.626 – 00:25:50.168
Give it some personality. Because I cannot stand emails.
So I get a lot of emails all of the time with people who’ve probably used ChatGPT asking to be on my podcast and it’s so obvious that they have used something like that because it’s like, hi Becca, I really enjoyed your recent episode number 137 with so and so where you talked about this and I’d like to be on your. And I’m like, no. Why?
Because you have zero personality and I don’t want people on my podcast that have personality because otherwise it’s boring and so it’s the same thing.
If you’re going to use ChatGPT, absolutely do it, but put some personality into it, inject it, make sure you don’t just sound like, hello, I’m every other support you’ve ever heard from. Like, make sure it’s fun and different and just has something to make it stand out.
Shannon
00:25:50.224 – 00:26:26.548
Yeah, I love it. You know, it’s like a job interview. It’s.
You wouldn’t show up to an interview with no information about, you know, the company you’re going to go work for. So, you know, have you been there before? How much have you researched it?
You know, how can you kind of pet and love on their ego too, to be like, damn, I’ve read your reviews and I don’t know who Katie is who works on your team, but she sounds like a gem to work with and Katie’s who I’m emailing.
Like, you sound like the kind of people that provide the level of service that we provide as a company and those are the kinds of venues we want to partner with and like partner with, relationship, give help, support. Those are the things like think outside the box.
Becca
00:26:26.644 – 00:27:00.880
So good, so many good tips in there. Now I want to flip it the other way around for a moment because we’ve talked a lot to vendors about how they can get in with venues.
But actually sometimes I think venues get this wrong as well because I don’t think they value the wedding professionals as much as they should do.
So they maybe have this list, but they don’t realize the power of engaging with the vendors in their area, maybe getting them into the venue to have a look around. Like, I just don’t think they always understand that those people out there also have a lot of influence.
So do you have any tips from the venue perspective about how they can engage better with vendors in their local area?
Shannon
00:27:01.000 – 00:29:35.026
Yeah, I think it’s so hard for venues because we host local networking events and you know, they come out and it’s like those series of bad emails because people just walk up to them and are like, how do I get on your list? How do I get in your list? How? They don’t even like get a chance to talk about their space. Space, you know.
So I think the networking piece is challenging for a venue.
I think that if the venues can, you know, come together, you know, or grab one of their favorite vendors to go network with to like kind of, you know, block for them a little bit. I think going out and being a face in the community.
So people know even some of the most luxury high end spaces in our market, they still come out and network. They still make sure that they’re a relatable face and it they show that the community matters. Letters to them. Not just for, you know, weddings.
Most of the people there would never have the opportunity to refer them. But it keeps top of mind. And so I do think that there’s such a strong opportunity when a venue is willing to be open.
You know, you have your set list but don’t close it off.
When I went to go work at the resort, you know, I walked in the door and there was three photographers and two DJs and like I felt really Bad for these people because this hotel was feeding them, like feeding their families. And I was like, the reason you’re not growing is because no one knows this place is here. So, you know, we started hosting networking events.
We opened our doors to every local association that existed. We hosted our own and said, well, let’s plan a fun themed and invite the whole industry out and let me feed you and take care of you.
Even on the food and beverage side, when I got there, oh, God, they were doing like box lunches for the vendors. And I’m like, you can’t be serving these people turkey sandwiches. They just worked for like eight hours straight.
And so I was like, if the guests eat filet, the vendors eat filet. Like, this is. And so finding ways to give back and support.
Don’t think that they weren’t taking pictures of filet and lobster tail and posting it on social media saying, like, oh, my God, they take such good care of us.
And so just remembering that, you know, as much as you, you know, you think you’re feeding down to them, they do have the opportunity to say great things about you in the industry, refer you to people. You know, they may not book them first, but those people have friends who have people who know other people.
And so, yeah, it really is a give and take on both sides. Not just the venue to vendor, but the venues should be looking at their vendor list as that partnership.
And I don’t want to say taking advantage, but maximizing on that relationship and partnership in more ways than they usually do.
Becca
00:29:35.148 – 00:30:39.558
Yeah, absolutely. So many opportunities.
There’s a great venue or a couple of great venues here where at the end of the season they host a party or an event for the vendors on their list. And I love that. Again, it’s like, thank you for everything you’ve done for us this year.
We want to celebrate you and we want you to continue to work for us. And what happens is that venue, social media is popping because everyone is there.
Everyone’s on their phones, everyone’s talking about how great this venue is. And we all know that they’re being followed by couples who’ve got friends who are getting married.
And it’s absolutely something so simple, it probably doesn’t cost the venue a whole lot. It’s an empty space. It’s a weekday night. All they’re doing is putting on a few glasses of bubbles and some canapes. And it has a massive impact.
So, venues, if you’re listening to us, pay attention to your pros. Make sure you give them a bit of Love. And they will 100% give you a bit of love back. What about when we need to freshen up the list?
Because I think the other thing that’s really difficult for venues is when they actually need to get rid of someone off their list or they feel a like someone’s not up to standard and they’ve got to say goodbye. Any tips for when they should freshen up their list or how they should say that goodbye?
Shannon
00:30:39.654 – 00:33:28.150
Yeah, I mean, I think when it’s time to freshen up the list, the first thing you want to do is ask the people who are already on your list for maybe other options in each category. Right. Start if, you know, you’d like to open the door to a few more, you know, DJs or photographer or cake people or planners.
Start with the people who are on your list and say, what’s the new and up and coming talent you’ve worked with recently that you had an amazing experience and you, you were like, these people should be on the list here. So I think when you’re trying to refresh, start with the people who are already in your house and ask them for referrals.
Right, there’s that R again, you know, is that like asking them for that? Those people. And those people’s reputation is already built on, you know, their experience of working with them, not just people I like.
And then, you know, I was a big fan of establishing a policy at our venue in terms of the vendors list. And so what we would do is every year we would track on a spreadsheet every wedding.
We just put in the company name and we would just start tracking and tabulating who did the couples hire, whether they hired someone on our list or not on our list, we just had a spreadsheet for, and we had a tab for every category. And we would track, you know, which DJs worked here. And then every time they did a wedding there, we just changed it from three to four. Right?
We added one. What would happen is you’d start to find upand coming talent and that up and coming talent that the couples were finding on their own.
So whether that was on Instagram, TikTok, Google, like wherever that person was representing themselves, that the couples were finding them outside of your list. And the couples were so impressed, they were like, I’m gonna hire this person even though the venue doesn’t recommend them.
That was a great way for us to like, start to keep a tally and eyes on. And when we tallied, it made it really easy to remove people from the list.
Because once a year we would just sit down and say, you know, we love working with you but the couples aren’t choosing you and so you’ve got, we would give them a six month window to up their game, refresh your website, start upping the game on social media, go chase your reviews because we want you to stay, but you’ve got to do the work on your side so that they want to choose you. And then, I mean if somebody just sucks, drop them. Like you don’t need to hold on, you don’t even need to tell them.
You can just take them off the list if you want to to the nice things to tell them. But venues don’t always want to confront that because they don’t want to have to tell you you are up to par. So they’ll just drop you.
But if it’s someone you really wish would get to work there more, you know, give them a window of time, sit them down and have that conversation about maybe the areas they’re lacking so that they get a chance to work on it. And then if they don’t work on it, then you drop them.
But it was easy because we tracked to be able to look and see, see, look, we did 100 weddings last year and you were only hired on three of them. Like that’s a problem when you’re one of five on the list. You should have done more than three here.
Becca
00:33:28.270 – 00:34:27.084
That’s really smart. That’s really smart to have a something going so you’ve actually got something to track it against.
And I’m also, I think venues, because we’re talking about this as a partnership and I think venues should have some kind of, kind of partnership document.
When you start working with someone that says you know the values of your venue, what you expect from your recommended partners is so that if someone is not doing those things or is against that, you have a way to go. You know what, like we set this out at the beginning, you’ve broken that agreement, therefore we’re no longer going to work with you.
And I think when we don’t have that, that’s when the lines get blurred and you know, the DJs late again, the DJs late again. And they’re like, oh well, next time they won’t be. It’s like, no.
We expect our wedding professionals to be here on time and if they have a problem outside of their control that they let us know and they keep in communication so that we can go, go, you know what? You know, once is an accident, twice is a Problem three times. No, no more.
And I think sometimes as venue owners, we gotta, we gotta suck that up and have that difficult conversation sometimes because actually it’s our venue’s reputation on the line when we’re recommending people to pros who are no good.
Shannon
00:34:27.172 – 00:36:21.544
Yeah. And it doesn’t have, you know, that one page agreement. Doesn’t have to be that complicated. This is what we’re gonna do for you.
Like, this is how we’re gonna promote your business.
This is what we’re gonna, you know, if you tag us and stuff, we’ll share it to stories like how we’re gonna be a good partner for you outside of just referring you custom couples and then what we expect from you. But when you set those clear expectations, it’s very different than it just being, oh, I like them.
I also think other businesses start to take your venue more seriously. You know, sometimes in the wedding industry, it’s a little dangerous when outside of venue, it’s so different. Right.
Because you’ve got massive overhead. You know, you’ve got huge operating costs that many other categories don’t have. They work from home now. We do zoom. We don’t even have offices.
And so time is the biggest. It’s not, you know, food obviously has got a lot food, bar, cake, have got some different expenses, but not every category does.
And so sometimes we’ll say, oh, they’re playing wedding like it’s a new business. They’re kind of dabbling. We’re not sure if they’re going to stay or be here or not. You know, people don’t look at venues like that.
But when you come in with policies, procedures, plans, the vendors take you seriously and they won’t screw up at your venue. They won’t lazy it’s. And be lax about it.
The golf resort I worked at, our food and beverage manager came in and was like, I’d like you to remove that florist from the list. And I was like, what’d they do? I know that they’re booked on like 30 more weddings. I’m like, can you give me a heads up?
And he’s like, it really bothers me that they wear jeans to set up. And I was like, perfect.
Well, we’ve never established that policy, so how about we establish that now and say, here’s our expectation, even when you’re just showing up and, you know, dropping off, that you still, you know, our expectation of what the team wears and whatever. And so we said as a policy, notified all the vendors, but I wasn’t going to just whip her off the list because he didn’t like it. Right.
You have to have those conversations.
Becca
00:36:21.672 – 00:36:52.492
Yeah. And it’s not fair if it’s an unwritten rule that they don’t know about, because if they knew about it, then they probably would dress appropriately.
And if they didn’t want to, they’d want to be off the list anyway because they wouldn’t want to be involved. So, yeah, I think it’s. I think it’s smart to lay out those expectations and boundaries. Shannon, I’ve loved this conversation.
I could talk to you all day, but we do need to start to wrap it up. I know you’ve got so much more that you could give, but I always end my podcast with the same question. So I’m going to pose that to you now.
And it’s this. What is one thing you personally wish you’d known sooner yourself in your own business?
Shannon
00:36:52.596 – 00:38:39.126
I wish I had known the power of either taking out a small business loan or finding the capital to be able to hire a salesperson.
So I think that, you know, as the business was growing and the operational support and tasks and marketing and things, you know, all started to grow, all the things you had to do once you start booking and growing and all of those things. I really believe that I waited too long to hire a salesperson because I was concerned I didn’t have the money.
I was worried about someone else’s payroll that I didn’t want to take on the responsibility of their family and their livelihood. I didn’t want to like not sleep at night because I didn’t have enough for payroll next week.
And so I wish I had just thought to go get the capital I needed from whichever way I could have gotten it. I wish I had done it faster because I did it finally. And you know, and it’s specifically for the role of sales because operational support is lovely.
I love our admin team. I couldn’t live without them. But sales produces revenue.
And so by hiring a salesperson to be able to grow revenue faster, even though that’s my favorite part is sales. But I knew that I couldn’t be in both spaces and no one else can run the whole op. I couldn’t hire a gm. That didn’t make sense.
So yeah, so making the finding the money to be able to hire a full time, high quality, not like a low pay entry level. I’m going to pay you a crap salary salary and hope you make commission. A living wage with strong commission.
So she earns it, but damn, is she Incredible and amazing. And I waited too long, but we’re killing it now and that’s all that matters.
Becca
00:38:39.238 – 00:38:44.502
I love that. And a good salesperson should pay their own wage because if they’re making the sales, then the money comes in, right?
Shannon
00:38:44.606 – 00:39:18.316
Yeah. I mean, I set her goals in year one that she would be $0. Like if she hit her goal in the first year, she would cost the company.
Company $0 and then there would be profit on top of it. And so, you know, when I reversed mindset with it on how I was going to pay her and what her plan and what her sales goals were going to be. Wild.
So biggest mistake. Not in a bad way, like, wish I had known earlier, but. Well, I always tell people like higher sales first.
Don’t think that no one else can sell my business as good as I can. Yes, they can. If they’re good, they can.
Becca
00:39:18.378 – 00:39:39.784
Can, absolutely.
And sometimes they can sell it better because they’re not so closely interlinked with it and they have that little bit more tenacity to just go out there and shout about how amazing it is. So, yeah, absolutely. Love that. Shannon, it’s been so much fun talking to you. I’m sure I’ll get you back at some point soon.
If people who are listening want to find out more about you and more about the different things you have to offer, where are the best places for them to find you?
Shannon
00:39:39.872 – 00:40:47.338
Venue help desk is venue help desk on all the places and spaces. So Instagram, Facebook, we’ve got a great, great Facebook group called the Insiders Network.
We do monthly power hours, which are free education specifically for venues. And on the website under Free Resources, you can find the vendor application I was talking about.
So venues can go on and they can download that application like it’s just a Google form so you can see it.
So if you want to think I want to do this thing, but I don’t know where to start, you can just, you can go in and just literally copy the form and make it for yourself. And my personal Instagram is the Shannon experience. And I’m working hard on getting more content consistently on that platform.
But the business we keep rocking and rolling is a lot easier than the personal side. So. But all things. And I’ll be speaking at Wedding MBA this year. So no matter where you are in the world, head on over to Wedding mba.
It’s my favorite conference, you know, over here in the US it’s the biggest conglomeration. I had the most fun last year with all the Brits who came over We. We had a blast. Yeah, we went and did activities together. We had so much fun.
So come on over to Wedding mba.
Becca
00:40:47.434 – 00:41:16.570
Yes.
I’m trying to grow the British contingent coming to wedding MBA, because the first year I came, there was, like, three other British people out of 5,000. And then this year, I managed to get, like, 15 to 20 people, and I was like, come on, people. We need to get more English people.
So if you’re listening to this, you want to know more. I’ve actually put together a guide to being a Brit and coming to Las Vegas for winning mba.
So reach out to me, and I can tell you all about how to get your flights, where to stay, and how to come have fun and party with me and Shannon out in Las Vegas. Shannon, it’s been so much fun. Thank you so much for your time.
Shannon
00:41:16.690 – 00:41:28.090
Thank you so much for having me.
And make sure if you have not listened to that episode, at whatever point you’re hearing this, go back and listen to that episode about the marketing theme park. It will literally change your mindset.
Becca
00:41:28.170 – 00:41:30.730
Amazing. I appreciate you so much. I’ll speak to you soon.
Shannon
00:41:30.850 – 00:41:31.434
Bye.
Becca
00:41:31.562 – 00:42:00.220
Such a fantastic conversation. I really love Shannon.
I know that we’re gonna do more together whenever I have a guest on this podcast, and I just think, yeah, you’re my kind of person. I know that they’re going to come back time and time again. She had some great points for you.
Whether or not you’re a venue owner or whether or not you’re a vendor, there’s so much for you to learn. Do go and check out what they have to offer at the venue help desk.
And if you’re going to Florida anytime soon, which I am, as you will know, in a very short time, go and have a look at her wedding venue map as well. I’ll see you next time.
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